Fire alarms technical query

[kurnal]

Cafe A has a wayleave means of escape from its upper floor through shop B. Shop B is OK on its own.

Both have interlinked fire alarms so if either goes into alarm the alarm sounds in both. Shop B has a modern (ish) firedex 2204 panel. Cafe A needs a new alarm system L3.

The history of the site is that in the past when cafe A which opens on a Sunday has had unwanted alarms it has been impossible to contact Owner of shop B to reset their panel.

The question is there any way that the units can be interfaced in a non latching way so that  in the event of an alarm on a Sunday if Cafe A resets their panel the Firedex in shop B can at least be silenced - without actually accessing the panel which is locked up in the secure office. Last time it rang through the night much to the displeasure of the neighbours.

The means of escape is still ok on a Sunday chaps.

Is there a technical solution such as installing the new alarm panel in the cafe as a mimic panel of the firedex in the shop and making it a single system with two panels?

[Wiz]

Prof. K, Obviously a new system with a control panel and a full function repeat panel will give you all the control you need but all the wiring for zones and sounders will have to emanate from the main 'control' panel.

But I can offer options that might suit your existing wiring!

Option 1 is that you can network two 4 zone Haes Envoy panels and have control of the entire system from either panel. Please note that this set-up allows you only 4 zones in total across the whole site but you can have the zone wiring spread between the panels as 1+3 or 2+2 or even 4+0. There will be sounder outputs available at each panel.

Option 2 is if each existing/new panels have a non-latching zone available. This non-latching zone would be wired as the one indicating 'the other system'. Because this zone doesn't 'latch' when it receives a fire condition, when the initiating panel resets then the remote panel automatically resets.

Both the above can set up in such a way that the overall combined system complies with BS5839-1.

A non-BS compliant option is to connect the output of one panel to the 'class-change/precinct input of the other panel. These inputs are non-latching so you get very much the same control as in option 2 above. However the minor problem with this is that the 'remote' panel will sound alarms with no zone indication (if everyone knows that 'no zone indication' means the fire is from the other panel then maybe this is not a problem) the major problem is that the links between panels are not monitored for faults in any way.

[kurnal]

Thanks Wiz.

The firedex 2204 has an unused zone - how would we know if this can be configured as a non latching zone?

[AnthonyB]

The engineers literature says it does have class change facility & also a set of relays one of which can be set up as an Interlink relay – for use with a single non-latching zone circuit to facilitate interconnecting Firedex 2200 panels.

It implies that the zones can be non latching, but also implies this has to be specified when ordering from the factory.

The people on fire alarm engineers.com will know for sure!

If there is no budget to replace equipment then the class change, although not perfect, is better than the other possible scenario of  links being chopped, systems powered down or sounders covered/smashed which has happened where in premises latching interlinks have been used.

[Owain]

Is it feasible to move the Shop fire panel to an accessible location?

[kurnal]

Not really- their system is fine and working ok. They dont need to spend any money. Its the cafe that has the problems, needs investment but they would not want to spend their hard earned cash on their neighbours system. I did suggest extending the shop alarm system into the caff to save everyone some cash but the shop wanted to retain control of their own system. They did not want to play ball and really why should they.

[Wiz]

The engineers literature says it does have class change facility & also a set of relays one of which can be set up as an Interlink relay – for use with a single non-latching zone circuit to facilitate interconnecting Firedex 2200 panels.

It implies that the zones can be non latching, but also implies this has to be specified when ordering from the factory.

The people on fire alarm engineers.com will know for sure!

If there is no budget to replace equipment then the class change, although not perfect, is better than the other possible scenario of  links being chopped, systems powered down or sounders covered/smashed which has happened where in premises latching interlinks have been used.

But remember, Prof., that the class-change inputs are not monitored so failure of the interlink cable would not be noticed until the next time it operated/was tested.

[lyledunn]

Might it be reasonable to remove the link, re-direct it to ASDs as necessary in shop B and connect to the spare way in the Firedex panel?