Sheltered Flats

[The Colonel]

Ladies and Gents

I know the subject has been aired before but a local housing association is looking for some clarification and guidance on where their responsibilities lie and if they are going in the right direction. I have received the following from them.

I need some clarification regarding our responsibilities as the Landlord of these premises.  We ensure the relevant fire detection systems have been installed & maintained as per statutory requirements.

As these are domestic premises what is our responsibility in terms of evacuating the tenants? We don’t have an  on site warden however we are looking to appoint individuals who will respond when an activation takes place. The intention would be for someone to attend to reset the panel once the fire & rescue service have given the all clear plus to act as a “meet & greet” with the fire & rescue service providing they haven’t left by the time the member of staff arrives. We have identified those tenants who have mobility or mental issues and intend to forward this list onto the fire control centre plus keep hard copies of tenant details in the fire box at each sheltered scheme. This will be maintained and updated on a monthly basis. The facilities team will carry out regular checks to ensure adherence. We were looking to check those areas where we have non ambulant individuals to ensure their flats  are compartmented plus check the integrity has not been compromised. A PEEP will be recorded for each individual however we will be stating that each such person will be operating a stay put. Is this acceptable? As these are domestic premises are we getting too involved? I’m presuming as landlords we have a duty of care to ensure an evacuation procedure is in place and communicated however where does our responsibility lay with regards to non ambulant tenants?

The local fire authority have met with the housing association and put the wind up them. As they intend to adopt an evacuation policy for their sheltered housing the fire authority have indicated that it is the associations responsibility to ensure all occupants have evacuated and if they don't they will take action against the them. I have also spoken to the officer concerned to clarify the situation which is, they expect the landlord to be responsible for evacuation and that someone from them should be on site within 20 minutes to carryout evacuation of those that cannot leave. If this is not achieved they will carryout an investigation to determine if the landlord has exercised due diligence and done all the can in the circumstances, surly the fire authority cannot hold the landlord responsible for a tenant holding two fingers up to any evacuation.

The landlord has had risk assessments carried out and have put into place almost all recommendations from the assessments and intends to ensure that all flats where those that cannot evacuate live are fully compartmented. They are documenting all actions to ensure that they are exercising due diligence. I think the fire authority may be being to hard on the landlord. I agree that they are there to fight fires and not to evacuate people but was that requirement not aimed at other premises other than domestic, because once you enter the flat it is a domestic premise and not covered by the RRO. the communal areas are not in dispute, the fire authority acknowledge that the communal areas are covered by the RRO

Has anyone come across this before, are the fire authority being to hard line or can the landlord do more except having someone waiting to spring into action 24/7.

[kurnal]

It all sounds a bit of a mess and a muddle Colonel.

Sheltered housing nationally has lost its wardens due mainly to the working time directive. I think those areas that can stay put should stay put. This way they remain domestic and the Landlord does not have to make arrangements for their evacuation in my opinion. The Landlord has then done his duty in providing safe premises and a suitable matching emergency strategy.

On the other hand if there are communal areas or flats with an all out evacuation strategy then someone needs to take charge and we have tried a number of solutions. One way is to identify two or three  "Responsible tenants" who can be employed on a turnout basis and paid a small fee. They work to a clearly defined role, are trained to that role and it works in some cases.
In our schemes their role may include checking the panel if accessible, calling the fire service, knocking on doors, meeting the brigade, handing them the PEEPS folder,  resetting the panel or calling the engineer.
In some other cases where there is a intercom system and a call centre a response team can be employed. This is the most successful solution in my experience in an urban setting. Scheme managers are on site during the working day and work a duty rota out of hours. We too set an attendance criteria of 20 minutes which seems to work reasonably well.

The fire services we have dealt with have accepted these solutions as a reasonable and realistic response.

Those  same officers who are suggesting landlords should employ extra staff to evacuate tenants are no doubt telling you that their own organisations are having to make cuts, will not send a pump to AFAs, eliminating guaranteed attendance times from their IRMP and cutting staffing on pumps to the bone.

[nearlythere]

Do Sheltered Dwellings on the mainland have to license by statute?

[The Colonel]

Kurnal

Interesting comments, thanks. We are getting the same comments from the fire service about cut backs, less pumps etc oh and by the way you must have people on site as we are only going to fight fires and are fed up with evacuating people.

Also interesting about residents helping out and being trained to assist, just need to be careful that they don't take on the superhero mantle and put themselves at risk. The housing association are getting more of their on call staff such as electricians and other trades trained on alarm panel resetting etc and when to call out the alarm engineers but may not meet the 20 minutes time frame as the association covers a whole county. They do intend to try and get a good spread but no guarantee that other call outs won't affect service.

The fire service officer is particularly keen that guidance doc 12 is used, the supplement for disabled persons, though this is mainly aimed at work places and public areas not so much at sheltered housing. Don't get me wrong there are some good suggestions in No12, extra hand rails, additional doors in corridors to reduce travel etc which they intend looking at. FS also suggested that less able residents should only be on the ground floor if they aren't able to evacuate, not something that can be enforced and I would suggest discriminatory as it take away choice.

Nearlythere, no licence required over here.

[nearlythere]

So is sheltered accommodation just a building containing private dwellings just like a block of flats or are they in a particular category of care? The dwellings are not relevant premises I assume?

[The Colonel]

Many sheltered housing schemes comprise a building containing individual flats that are FR compartments with communal corridors, communal residents lounge, laundry etc. Effectively each flat is a residents own domestic premise but with others around it. The ones I refer to are just flats within a building with no additional care provided by the landlord other than a housing officer who is the contact between landlord and resident

[William 29]

Is the building suitable for a stay put policy where only the flat invloved in fire need evacuate and does the fire alarm installed support stay put or does it sound a general alarm?  If the building can be adapted to support a stay put policy then that is the way to go and full evacuation is not an issue.  Maintain a PEEPs log of those that need assitance from the fire service to evacuate and make sure it is accessable to them.  See anex Q6 of BS 9999.

[nearlythere]

Many sheltered housing schemes comprise a building containing individual flats that are FR compartments with communal corridors, communal residents lounge, laundry etc. Effectively each flat is a residents own domestic premise but with others around it. The ones I refer to are just flats within a building with no additional care provided by the landlord other than a housing officer who is the contact between landlord and resident

Is it a case then that your F&RS is looking at all blocks of flats on this matter? Or do they consider sheltered accommodation to be care premises?

[The Colonel]

William, many of the buildings would be suitable for stay put, where findings have been identified in the risk assessment the housing association have undertaken everything asked of them, its only the tenants that cause problems. Intrusive surveys inside flats are being considered by the HA. Your comment on the fire service assisting is where our local FRS have put up the problem in that they state that it is there job to fight fire and not to help evacuate people and that the evacuation is down to the landlord to sort out. It is almost a case of we are going to have less staff to work with so you as the landlord will have to have staff available to evacuate residents.

Nearlythere. the only blocks the FRA are concerned about at the moment is sheltered housing, general needs doesn't seem to come into it. Its interesting about being a care premises because most residents are left to their own devices, housing support staff are available but only during the day and usually from a remote office, they provide no care. Some residents may have care staff visiting or home helps etc but these come from the local council social services.

[nearlythere]

How do the residents pay for living in sheltered accommodation? They sound a lot like Fold Housing as we have over here. They are primarily for elderly persons who have their own self contained flats but have access to communal areas where they can congregate and socialise with others if they want to. They are not in care and I believe hand over their pension books when they take up residence unless they have a private means to pay to stay. To me they are private dwellings just like any other block of private flats.

[kurnal]

Yes thats one type of sheltered accommodation as we call it over here.
If its well designed the flats will be stay put but generally communal facilities are evacuated and have an L2 spec alarm. Always difficult writing emergency plans for these places because we know full well most people in the common room will try and head for their flat if the alarm sounds rather than the exits. OK if a false alarm but one day it will be a fire. 

[Beast]

Exactly that NT, I believe that some are owner occupied too.

[The Colonel]

NT. You've got it except for the handing over of pension books. the flats are private and as far as I am concerned the RRO stops at the flat front door and don't quite understand how the fire authority can insist on the landlord getting everyone out. The resident pays the rent by various means, but as with many types of accommodation for the over 55s they may be fit when the move in but things as we know go down hill, how on earth can a landlord be held responsible if he has done all in his power to ensure compartmentation, warning, escape, advice etc.

[nearlythere]

NT. You've got it except for the handing over of pension books. the flats are private and as far as I am concerned the RRO stops at the flat front door and don't quite understand how the fire authority can insist on the landlord getting everyone out. The resident pays the rent by various means, but as with many types of accommodation for the over 55s they may be fit when the move in but things as we know go down hill, how on earth can a landlord be held responsible if he has done all in his power to ensure compartmentation, warning, escape, advice etc.

People in private traditional flats as we know them can go downhill as well. Does the F&RS police all private flats looking for people who are candidates for residential care?

[William 29]

William, many of the buildings would be suitable for stay put, where findings have been identified in the risk assessment the housing association have undertaken everything asked of them, its only the tenants that cause problems. Intrusive surveys inside flats are being considered by the HA. Your comment on the fire service assisting is where our local FRS have put up the problem in that they state that it is there job to fight fire and not to help evacuate people and that the evacuation is down to the landlord to sort out. It is almost a case of we are going to have less staff to work with so you as the landlord will have to have staff available to evacuate residents.

Quite simply the fire service need to be challenged on this one, its well worth a fight given the impact it has on so may similar situations up and down the Country.  A small fact they seem to forget when dealing with housing associations with several hundred properties.