Unsupervised hotels and apartment hotels

[kurnal]

My daughter recently stayed in a london hotel in which she says the office was staffed only during the day and there was a sign in the room with a phone number to contact the management at night. There was  no one on site at night.

Similarly there appears to be a growth of apartment hotels without managerial supervision on site, (though I assume these will be designed as residential flats with the compartmentation etc to support a stay put strategy).

Has anyone come across such places and looked into how they manage the response to a fire alarm with no one on site, and what arrangements are made for disabled people such as those who are profoundly deaf or wheelchair users?

[colin todd]

They are all over the place Big Al and always have been. Tell Miss Big Al to stop looking at fire safety when she goes to hotels and gets down to the bar instead.

[kurnal]

Yes they do but is fire safety effectively managed or do they just get away with it?

Indeed can a hotel really be managed effectively without a presence on site or with a very quick response team?

As for my daughter I have never needed to give her any encouragement to visit a bar.

[kurnal]

Nobody else has any views on this topic then?

[jokar]

I doubt very much if any of the built hotels were designed around BS 9999 and therefore had a management level applied to them as it is more onerous than ADB.  The preliminary risk assessment under Regulation 31will probably not mention management so how does it get picked up at design stage.  Once occupied unless an FRS or FRA, I never know what they are supposed to be called audit it pre or post fire then it may never come up unless like you it has been brought to your attention.  Easyhotels were the first to do this type of thin I believe but now have staff available in most of the chain.  Some hotels even with staff will be abject in their management so what issues could arise.  If the owners can prove it works then who is to question it.

[Phoenix]

I've stayed in a few places like this (unwittingly) and I don't like them.  The hotel operators will claim that they have discharged their responsibilties by explaining to the guests which keys are for which doors and by providing a fire action notice on the back of the door for the guests to hang their coats over. 

But it is well known that hotel guests are among the worst people in the world at responding to fire alarm evacuation signals, typically either not responding at all or taking at least 30 minutes to do so.  In light of this knowledge, it simply cannot be acceptable that there be no one on site (or at least within spitting distance) to ensure that evacuation takes place.

Stu

[kurnal]

Yes it makes me wonder how on earth they can meet their duties under article 15 and especially their responsibility to assist persons with special needs.

On the other hand, taking into account the average response of hotel guests to a fire alarm, we cannot expect the RP to drag the unwilling guest out of their beds - how far is it reasonable to expect people to take responsibility for their own safety and how far is it the RPs job to make sure they do?

[Clevelandfire 3]

Stopped in a couple of these places. Staffed for cleaning and breakfast, fully automated check in. Credit card booking and you use your card to unlock room.No stay put policy. Just convetional comparetmentation and an L2 system. Full evac. Fire instructions on back of door. They have those full fangled electronic key things that logs you in and out of the building.Cant get in or out without swiping. Not sure how that info gets passed onto responding fire crews to tell them how many people might be left in the building. Alarms were monitored.

[Fishy]

Never stayed in one myself (I don’t get out much) but I understand how they could work in theory – you’d be expected to respond to the fire alarm & do the right thing (‘cos you’d read and understood the fire action notice, hadn’t you, & you weren’t drunk, were you, & you hadn't taken sleeping tablets etc, etc...).  A bit ‘fragile’ as a fire strategy, in my humble opinion.

[William 29]

I wonder given that there are so many of them if there have been any successful prosecutions or challenges to the fire risk assessment under the RRFSO?  I had dealings with an attempt at serving a Notice in Manchester City centre pre RRFSO days under the then Work Place Regs /FP Act but it was difficult to bring a water tight case and HQ wouldn’t take it on.

[Midland Retty]

A few years back I lodged at an "unmanned hotel" in France. All open balconies, no internal corridors, construction appeared to be similar to the flats / maisonette codes in the UK. Can't recall what the fire instructions stated.

More recently, back in blighty, I stayed at a hotel staffed during 7.00 till 16.00hrs only, thereafter it was
unstaffed. The hotel resembled any other hotel, it had appropriate AFD and the usual trimmings. Simple clear fire evacuation procedures were on the back of the bedroom door!

My colleagues and I seem to recall something about the french hotel chain "Formule 1" challenging a fire authority in england - the fire authority were concerned about the evacuation of guests, did a quick google search and couldn't find any further details.

[kurnal]

To me there are several issues with this.

1- It seems reasonable to me for a hotel owner to instruct most guests (without special needs)  that in the interests of their own safety they must leave in the event of a fire alarm. If they stay where they are and dont respond is it reasonable to put a member of staff at risk to go and look for them?
2- However it is also essential in my view, in the event of an alarm sounding and the fire brigade attending, (always assuming they will on the say so of an ARC) to have someone to meet them and give information on the number and location of guests. I cant see how this could be done without a member of staff on site.
3- It seems essential to put special measures in place to assist those with special needs- including unaccompanied deaf or blind people and wheelchair users for example.
4- Someone needs to be present, in the event of a false alarm, to investigate, silence and reset the panel. (The responsible person in BS5839)

Points 2,3 and 4 cannot be achieved without trained staff on site in my opinion.

I believe the many hotels that do operate without staff are flying by the seat of their pants and the enforcers are waiting for a horse to bolt before they will close the stable door.

[Psuedonym]

To me there are several issues with this etc

I believe the many hotels that do operate without staff are flying by the seat of their pants and the enforcers are waiting for a horse to bolt before they will close the stable door.

Absolutely bang on Kurnal, although the night staff in the one of the hotels I stop in (nr Glasgow) needs waking up to allow access at 0430 !  He's tried to convince me he sees my van pull in and is just pretending but the ruffled clothes and socks are a real givaway !!

[kurnal]

If I were you I would stop up all night just to spite him. Keep going and knocking on his door every 15 minutes Pseudo. That should do the trick and you will feel much better for it.

[nearlythere]

If I were you I would stop up all night just to spite him. Keep going and knocking on his door every 15 minutes Pseudo. That should do the trick and you will feel much better for it.

........if not a little tired.