New draft BS 5306-8

[AnthonyB]

The revised standard for the selection & positioning of extinguishers is out at BSI's draft website.

Several important proposed changes including:
- Secondary damage & environmental damage to be considered
- Powder now not generally suitable for any indoor use due to discharge cloud/secondary damage as oppose to old 'hotels, hospitals, assembly' restriction (can still be provided but only after consultation with client and usually for industrial premises only)
- More specific guidance on choosing agent, e.g. gas based extinguishers for enclosed hazards only
- Different maximum travel distances for different risks
- Now specifically requires signs
- Permits non red extinguishers (e.g. stainless steel) but with consistency of appearance across site
- Emphasis on the consultant/risk assessor to initially determine requirements, not the equipment supplier
- Simplified tables for Class B risks
- No provision of Class C rated extinguishers any more unless site has dedicated trained fire fighters due to explosion risk so Powder will no longer be required in Boiler Rooms etc
- Class F risks with exposed fat of more than 0.4 sq m should have a fixed system as well as portables (i.e. most commercial ranges)
- Guidance on provision for multiple fire risks & how to rationalize to avoid a proliferation of equipment

[nearlythere]

- Class F risks with exposed fat of more than 0.4 sq m should have a fixed system as well as portables (i.e. most commercial ranges)

Is that in total AB or per or any appliance?

[nearlythere]

The revised standard for the selection & positioning of extinguishers is out at BSI's draft website.



- Powder now not generally suitable for any indoor use due to discharge cloud/secondary damage as oppose to old 'hotels, hospitals, assembly' restriction (can still be provided but only after consultation with client and usually for industrial premises only)

- Now specifically requires signs

- No provision of Class C rated extinguishers any more unless site has dedicated trained fire fighters due to explosion risk so Powder will no longer be required in Boiler Rooms etc

Where did you come across these bits AB?

[The Colonel]

Anthony

Any chance you could provide a link to the draft, I am having trouble tracking it down.

Thanks

[AnthonyB]

The revised standard for the selection & positioning of extinguishers is out at BSI's draft website.



- Powder now not generally suitable for any indoor use due to discharge cloud/secondary damage as oppose to old 'hotels, hospitals, assembly' restriction (can still be provided but only after consultation with client and usually for industrial premises only)

- Now specifically requires signs

- No provision of Class C rated extinguishers any more unless site has dedicated trained fire fighters due to explosion risk so Powder will no longer be required in Boiler Rooms etc

Where did you come across these bits AB?

Powder no longer advisable indoors

"5.4.3 Use of powder extinguishers 
The discharge of a powder extinguisher can cause a sudden reduction of visibility, which
could temporarily jeopardize escape, rescue or other emergency action. For this reason
water-based extinguishers should ideally be specified for use indoors"

Signs

"The position and type of a fire extinguisher should be indicated on a sign so that, if the
extinguisher is removed, this can be identified during a safety inspection, and a replacement
ordered.
NOTE 2 Attention is drawn to legal obligations in respect of indicating the location of fire-fighting
equipment."


Class C

"8.4 Class C – Fires involving gases
8.4.1 General
If a trained fire-fighter is not at the scene of the incident, the only safe method of
extinguishing class C fires is to cut off the flow of fuel to the leak. Locating and operating the
flow control valves is therefore the preferred method of extinction. These actions should be
carried out as a matter of extreme urgency. 
If this cannot be done immediately, two opposing fire hazards are possibilities. These are:
a) the jet of flame, contrasted with b) the filling of a volume with unburnt gas. A gas reservoir
with free access of air will be liable to re-ignition at any time, possibly with explosive force.
Unless the jet is playing directly upon some other combustible material, which should be
covered with an appropriate extinguisher as recommended elsewhere in Clause 8, allowing
the flame to continue is the least dangerous option until the flow can be stopped.
8.4.2 Minimum quantities of class C extinguishers required
None are required unless a trained fire-fighter is available (see 8.4.1).
8.4.3 Additional extinguishers to the minimum scale of class C provision
None are required (see 8.4.1)"

[AnthonyB]

Anthony

Any chance you could provide a link to the draft, I am having trouble tracking it down.

Thanks

http://www.britishfireconsortium.org.uk/bs5306-8.pdf

[AnthonyB]

- Class F risks with exposed fat of more than 0.4 sq m should have a fixed system as well as portables (i.e. most commercial ranges)

Is that in total AB or per or any appliance?

Just refers to "an area"

[nearlythere]

The revised standard for the selection & positioning of extinguishers is out at BSI's draft website.



- Powder now not generally suitable for any indoor use due to discharge cloud/secondary damage as oppose to old 'hotels, hospitals, assembly' restriction (can still be provided but only after consultation with client and usually for industrial premises only)

- Now specifically requires signs

- No provision of Class C rated extinguishers any more unless site has dedicated trained fire fighters due to explosion risk so Powder will no longer be required in Boiler Rooms etc

Where did you come across these bits AB?

Signs

"The position and type of a fire extinguisher should be indicated on a sign so that, if the
extinguisher is removed, this can be identified during a safety inspection, and a replacement
ordered.
NOTE 2 Attention is drawn to legal obligations in respect of indicating the location of fire-fighting
equipment."

Does this tie in with the above?

6.2 Visibility
Wherever practicable, extinguishers should be clearly visible and predominately red. Where
this is not possible, through either position or colour, the extinguisher should be indicated by
suitable signs.

[The Colonel]

Anthony, thanks for the link.

[AnthonyB]

The revised standard for the selection & positioning of extinguishers is out at BSI's draft website.



- Powder now not generally suitable for any indoor use due to discharge cloud/secondary damage as oppose to old 'hotels, hospitals, assembly' restriction (can still be provided but only after consultation with client and usually for industrial premises only)

- Now specifically requires signs

- No provision of Class C rated extinguishers any more unless site has dedicated trained fire fighters due to explosion risk so Powder will no longer be required in Boiler Rooms etc

Where did you come across these bits AB?

Signs

"The position and type of a fire extinguisher should be indicated on a sign so that, if the
extinguisher is removed, this can be identified during a safety inspection, and a replacement
ordered.
NOTE 2 Attention is drawn to legal obligations in respect of indicating the location of fire-fighting
equipment."

Does this tie in with the above?

6.2 Visibility
Wherever practicable, extinguishers should be clearly visible and predominately red. Where
this is not possible, through either position or colour, the extinguisher should be indicated by
suitable signs.

It isn't clearly put, but I think what it is saying is that:
1- All extinguishers should have ID signs so it is easy to spot if one is missing
2- Even though we have already said all extinguishers should be signed we will re-emphasise the importance of this for extinguishers in cupboard or those not red

[Psuedonym]

Class F risks with exposed fat of more than 0.4 sq m should have a fixed system as well as portables (i.e. most commercial ranges)

This referes to the total cooking surface - exposed fat, of a single appliance, a fryer for example. It is usually the cooking surface of an appliance which forms the "risk" although there are systems out there that protect the exhaust of the appliance which is a massive risk on the high fat content appliances.

However UL300 systems protect the majority of the cookline (commercial "ranges" are a specific appliance risk. Cookline refers to all appliances within the commercial world - e.g. broilers,salamanders, griddles, solid tops/ranges) i.e. all grease appliances. Which in the UK are a Class F  risk. This definition should be made more specific by BSI to the portables manufacturer so as to inform the the end user that they (Class F) are not a limitation for fryer protection only.
A fixed system is the ideal answer to cookline risks as it takes away the decision making process from a panicking kitchen employee but are not a legal requirement over here. They also protect (and detect) within the plenum and duct areas of the cookline, an area were portables cannot penetrate yet form a huge fire spread risk - hight temp, greasy fumes and grease build up.

Is the Class C definition now to be removed from portables labels?
How do suppliers stand regarding existing Class C kit?
Are they now liable or does this open up another new sales avenue. Oh how cynical, that's like saying every time BS issue new remits the manufacturers sell more units! Pure coincidencal i'm sure!!

[AnthonyB]

It's grand, you can now replace all those boiler room powders with CO2...

All too often I see portable wet chemical instead of supplementing fixed (in the USA you must have a fixed system which is discharged first, the portable being for back up only) or worse foam/powder/co2 instead of wet chemical.

The clause to avoid too many different types will be handy for certain branches of a certain fast food chain that have a fire point with every different type of extinguisher and a blanket at it!

[kurnal]

I see where you are coming from but should kitchen staff not be trained to recognise the difference between a small fire and a potentially big fire?
Are they likely to wreck the whole days business for the sake of a small fire that could otherwise be dealt with using a portable or a blanket? 

Am I wrong in suggesting to kitchen staff that they use the portable if they discover a small fire in its early stages and only if that fails to decisively extinguish the fire then to operate the fixed installation?

[Psuedonym]

No, your right. Tackle first and if it can't be knocked down then use the fixed suppression system.

My only argument there would be the lack of training of staff and complete and utter ignorance of the fixed systems. I'm no racist but the influx of foreign cheap labour who don't understand the complexity of English is sadly the majority of hotel chains' staffing priority. Cost verses quality again. Hotel management agencies have flooded the British hotel market with non English personnel for years and who now are within the decision making management levels.

Head Chefs for example, don't fair any better. I was asked last year by the Head Chef in a hotel which is part of a top end, high class worldwide hotel chain "what are those silver boxes you keep fiddling with on the wall? 25 year on the job and I still don't know what they do"
So impromtu free fire training for his 5 kitchens worth of staff quickly followed, so at least one hotel has a grounding now. Those who understood English anyway.

I was shown a video yesterday used for kitchen staff inductions. Video, top end hotel chain, ****e quality, laughable and poor quality, 10 mins of "Hotel Fire Safety Information".
How the hell are staff expected to make an informed decision when they aren't given the correct information or shown how to safely use the stuff hanging on the walls which someone pays to have supplied and maintained to the correct Standards?
I'm afraid it's box ticking time again. 12 month's er..safety training (when was the last time someone told you they show their staff how to use a blanket?? You know that thing in the plastic box !  ) and that's that obligation fulfilled.

[AnthonyB]

I see where you are coming from but should kitchen staff not be trained to recognise the difference between a small fire and a potentially big fire?
Are they likely to wreck the whole days business for the sake of a small fire that could otherwise be dealt with using a portable or a blanket? 

Am I wrong in suggesting to kitchen staff that they use the portable if they discover a small fire in its early stages and only if that fails to decisively extinguish the fire then to operate the fixed installation?

Not really - I was just pointing out that in the US codes are such that where both are installed the portable is only meant to be used as a back up - safety signs for US Class K portable extinguisher points all say to discharge the fixed system first, showing how there is a difference in thinking between the two countries (reflected in other aspects too like the wider use of sprinklers and more stringent regulations in some locales for fire safety provision in private dwellings)