What is your opinion ?

[John]

I carried out a FRA in a hotel, and one of the recommendations to protect the only escape route from one bedroom was to change the door on the cupboard under the stairs containing a fuseboard to at least FD30.

On my return, to carry out a review of the FRA, I found that an "attempt" at upgrading the standard door had been made.  So, the door has been reinforced, it is definately thicker than it was, I'm not quite sure what it has been reinforced with, there are intumescent strips which have been fitted to the door, however, the door still does not close properly, the self closer is like nothing I have seen before, but if I was to use a self closer like that, it would only be on a kitchen cupboard or something similar.  One further point on the existing door, is, as it is on the cupboard under the stairs, the door had a small cut out to fit in with the stairway, which may have influenced the decision not to replace the door.

As with many recommendations in action plans, these things cost money, I appreciate that, but by trying to cut corners, I feel this could cost the life of the poor customer who is allocated that room.

I know several companies will supply intumescent paints and "door upgrade" kits, and they claim following upgrade doors will comply with BS476

What is your opinion on upgrading standard doors ?

[nearlythere]

I carried out a FRA in a hotel, and one of the recommendations to protect the only escape route from one bedroom was to change the door on the cupboard under the stairs containing a fuseboard to at least FD30.

On my return, to carry out a review of the FRA, I found that an "attempt" at upgrading the standard door had been made.  So, the door has been reinforced, it is definately thicker than it was, I'm not quite sure what it has been reinforced with, there are intumescent strips which have been fitted to the door, however, the door still does not close properly, the self closer is like nothing I have seen before, but if I was to use a self closer like that, it would only be on a kitchen cupboard or something similar.  One further point on the existing door, is, as it is on the cupboard under the stairs, the door had a small cut out to fit in with the stairway, which may have influenced the decision not to replace the door.

As with many recommendations in action plans, these things cost money, I appreciate that, but by trying to cut corners, I feel this could cost the life of the poor customer who is allocated that room.

I know several companies will supply intumescent paints and "door upgrade" kits, and they claim following upgrade doors will comply with BS476

What is your opinion on upgrading standard doors ?

Door upgrade kits should be used with care as, I'm sure you know, not all doors cannot be upgraded and the necessary explanatory information would very likely be provided with the Kit. Sometimes people think it is just a case of lashing on numerous coats of the product and we end up with an insta fire door.
Are you not able to make comment in the review that the door in question is unlikely to provide the necessary level of fire separation because of the obvious defects and doubt with the method of "upgrading" that was undertaken?
If the RP then wants your advice on how this can be rectified you can advise as necessary.
Just to clarify - is the bedroom and cupboard door in a dead end condition hence the reason for the fire door?

[kurnal]

Is the partition in which the door is mounted also to a fire resisting standard?

Door upgrades are always questionable and there are techniques that have been treid and tested to BS476. Trada have produced data sheets on the upgrading of timber door sets in the past still around on th e internet, and IFC did a detailed study of a range of doors and suitable techniques for their upgrading on behalf of English Heritage or the NT. If using proprietary products you must make sure your door exactly matches the specification and use the product in strict acordance with the instructions.

[Phoenix]

Cupboard doors do not require self closers provided that they are kept locked shut (it should have the standard cupboard fire door sign).

If you cannot tell what material they have used, would it not be a simple matter to ask them how they have attempted to upgrade the door?

When you say the door doesn't close properly that can mean two things.  It might mean that the self closer fails to close the door or it might mean that when the door is closed there are still gaps where it meets (or fails to meet) the frame.  Which one of these is the problem?  If the former, then just make sure it's kept locked shut; if the latter then they will have to sort it out.

Stu

[John]

Gentlemen, thank you for your responses.

Nearly,

Yes there is a dead end situation which leads to the requirement for the fire resisting door.  The comment is already in the review regarding the concerns over this likely lack of fire separation, I am now awaiting the argument from the building owner who arranged for the upgrade to be carried out.

Kurnal,

The partition in which the door is mounted would appear to be plasterboard, it is doubtful if it is fire lined plasterboard, the fire resistance of this has already been questioned and commented on in the initial FRA and the review, along with the fire resistance of the ceiling in the cupboard below the stairs, so essentially the fire separation for this entire escape route has been questioned.

Stu,

It is a fair point to suggest that it may be a simple matter to ask the question on how they attempted to upgrade the door, however, I am working for the tenant, and the building owner arranged for the work to be carried out, and I doubt whether either of them would know what materials were used, however, it may prove useful to ask to be put into contact with the person who carried out the upgrade and ask directly.  On your point about the door not closing properly, unfortunately both of your suggestions were correct, in that the self closer does not close the door properly, and when closed, the door does not meet the frame correctly, which were the main reasons it was suggested in the original FRA that the door and frame set be replaced.

[Fishy]

If someone has been contracted to upgrade the doorset, they should have presented evidence of fire resistance performance to support the work that they've done.  If you're in England & Wales, Appendix A: "Performance of materials, products and structures" tells you what to look for. 

At the end of the day, unless someone can demonstrate that the works have been to the appropriate standard, you pretty much have to assume that they're not & risk assess accordingly.