PAS 79:2012– Fire Risk Assessment. Guidance and a recommended methodology

[colin todd]

Kell , you are right. Use of PAS 79  is bound to be of help to those seeking third party certification as it will ensure that the assessors look at the right things.  The thought shoud have occurred to me before.  Good marketing point, which I will pass on to BSI!  You are so much better than I am at salesmanship -you should come and work for me and give up flogging a certification scheme that, within days, will be overshadowed by an industry concensus scheme.

[Kelsall]

Just take a look at the fire pedigree of those CBs that have opted for SP 205 and compare it with those who have left it alone. It will be more popular than other schemes out there just as McDonalds is more popular than Gourmet Burger Kitchen. The reason being obvious to me and at least 3 other CBs. You already know how to make money Colin and what is more concerning is your ability to save money; perhaps your training for a well known CB has saved you money on something you may be gaining shortly from them!

  Take care Colin; take great care!

[William 29]

Just take a look at the fire pedigree of those CBs that have opted for SP 205 and compare it with those who have left it alone. It will be more popular than other schemes out there just as McDonalds is more popular than Gourmet Burger Kitchen. The reason being obvious to me and at least 3 other CBs. You already know how to make money Colin and what is more concerning is your ability to save money; perhaps your training for a well known CB has saved you money on something you may be gaining shortly from them!

  Take care Colin; take great care!

I'm afraid posts like this one are the kind to make me question posting on the forum.

[Kelsall]

Is Colin exempt from your condemnation William? 


I am salesman flogging a dead horse according to him.

I am merely pointing out that he should take care when he goes out of his way to insult people as they may point out things that raise questions.

I am sure the CBs that operate SP 205 will do it very well just as they do electrical installations, surveillance equipment and fire extinguishers. 

At the end of the day the forum is for debate and if someone uses it to have a go at others; the gloves come off and it gets messy. Perhaps the Kurnal could dust off his cards and put us both in the sin bin. The reality is that in the absence of any referee I am playing Colin’s game and enjoying it.

I agree William, it doesn’t add to the forum but it is what it is…a game.

[kurnal]

I would simply point out that if anyone wishes to modify their posts at any time there is a facility to do so using the modify tab. 

If someone does this and another has quoted the original wording in the posting I would normally then amend the quotation too.

[Tom W]

I agree with William. I stopped posting here for a few months as for one it kept crashing on me but for two Kelsalls constant banging on about warrington was p*ssing me off.

3rd Party accreditation is such a small part of fire safety and something thats not even required by law. How many risk assessors in the UK, and there is about 8 on his scheme, so this constant spam is all about something 8 PEOPLE HAVE DONE. Get a grip. I've never seen anyone get personal or even have a cross word on here til he came along.

Im afraid if it carries on I and I presume other like William will simply stop. It can be his own private forum.

[Kelsall]

 Sorry you feel that way piglet, your view is a little clouded by your opinion of me I feel. I have made some very useful and positive contributions to the forum and only when my posts have been hijacked as they often are with the addition of irrelevant or derogatory comments have I treated the poster with the respect he deserves (none) and that is more than justified. If a thread gets destroyed I think you will find it is as a direct flow down from a post that is an intentional dig. Unfortunately I can’t promise to stop having a dig back, but I will continue not to be the aggressor.

[kurnal]

I  wil not lock this thread as these rumblings and personal disagreements will only resurface elsewhere and spoil another thread.

So now we have all had a go at each other can we please stick to the issues.

This thread is about PAS79. What are the changes, is it a good document or could it be better? Is the template suitable and easy to use?

Personally I hate the template and wont use it. I find it messy, disjointed and the action plan particularly poor. I would rather an action plan set out clearly
1- what is the problem,
2- how serious is it,
3- who is at risk from it, 
4- what needs to be done to  fix it
5- When should it be done
6- what will be the level of risk when the recommendations have been implemented

and with a space for the RP to say who will fix it and when it is complete.

But I do think the PAS79 methodology is spot on.

[William 29]

Kurnal, agreed with getting back to the point.  The personal stuff while at first is entertaining gets boring after a while and always detracts from the post which as you point out was about PAS 79 and ended up somehow getting around to BAFE SP205, 3rd party accreditation etc.

My personal view on the PAS is it is a good read and essential reading for anyone completing FRAs but it’s not the Holy Grail.  If we all followed the 9 step format all FRAs would look the same.  Our FRAs are PAS 79 based in terms of the approach and methodology but they don’t follow it to the letter.  It’s also worth noting that on several tenders for FRAs that I have seen they actually state that the FRA must “comply” or be “in accordance with” PAS 79, so it does need to be given consideration.


PS I note I have reached the grand mile stone of 250 posts and am now a "Senior Member" is there some sort of prize for this and does it increase when you are a Hero Member???

[kurnal]

the prize is that you get to buy us all a drink. The prize for 10000 posts is probably a divorce.

[William 29]

 

[Tom W]

shut up william, floomin heck! Now you're a senior member all I ever read is your stuff on how good Williams are 

[Kelsall]

I have seen many templates over the last few years and one thing that stands out is when taken in isolation, they give very little indication of an assessors thought process.

 i.e. Are the means of escape suitable …..yes.

What has he or she looked at to make that conclusion, you can bet your last pound that if you put 10 ‘assessors’ through the same building they won’t all look at the same things to make that assessment.

They should all look at the same things, but they will not. Especially if they are for want of a better word ‘amateurs’  Therefore if you get a template that prompts more expansion in the answer, the methodology of assessment is transparent. I realise that good assessors do make good accurate judgements and they don’t want to fill in the extra bits but if they were there the ‘amateur’ would need to provide evidence for the judgement, thus improving the standard of assessment.

[colin todd]

Kel, Well done, you have obviously, at last, bought a copy of PAS 79, which would not permit a simple yes to the adequacy of means of escape. It requires the relevant factors all to be considered. God, I am so proud of you. Sometimes, I think I have taught you all the good stuff you know.  By the way, what makes you think it was only one CB we trained?  I could do you a special discount for training too if you want. Mates rates would apply.

[Kelsall]

Thanks Colin, I will be in contact shortly!