Clothing on fire

[lancsfirepro]

Note the differing lengths and the tie wraps added to hold the tube in place rather than the crappy o-ring that slides down.  Garbage.










We tried a popular UK manufacturer last year (supporting the British economy and all that) and were none too impressed with their quality; see below.  And that was a new extinguisher (cut open obviously).  Some of the Chinese stuff is actually very good - I've been round a few factories and they're pretty impressive (granted some of the H&S needs looking).  If you know what you're looking at, and choose accordingly the kit is fine.

[AnthonyB]

You've got to PM me whose can that was - that's awful! I have a suspicion though. It's a short list of suspects though - only two UK manufacturers remain as the third sold all it's tooling and machinery off last year and now imports.

I agree some of the Chinese stuff can be OK if you choose carefully.

Personally Amerex is the best stuff I've ever dealt with that is still in production, just far too expensive!

[lancsfirepro]

PM sent.
While we're on the subject of these water mist cans. They're advertised as 'dry mist'. Biggest load of pap I've heard - nothing 'dry' about it. Rant over. 

[SamFIRT]

Well if they are dry ........then they will be not suitable for clothing fires....... which was the original point of this thread.

People suffering from clothing fires (whilst they are wearing them) will be suffering various stages of burn. These need to be treated by cooling with water for 20 minutes whilst medial aid is sought.

It not just about putting a fire out.... let's think of the casualty. For once.

[lancsfirepro]

Don't worry, there's nothing dry about them - you'd be pi**ed wet through - although you won't get 20 mins out of one.    Maybe a hose reel or an emergency shower? ( I jest) 

[Tom Sutton]

The build/design also the cost can change in the future but what about the medium/method used to extinguisher the fire what is the opinion on that.

As for getting getting soaked I see that as a bonus (cooling) because in the UK we shouldn't be using it on electric fires.

[lancsfirepro]

Well they've passed fire tests to EN3 (I'll come back to this) but there are drawbacks.  Firstly you have a much shorter discharge length.  Secondly you would struggle using one outside is there's any amount of wind because the spray would be affected.
On class B fires; water won't provide a film that prevents re-ignition like AFFF will.  Equally for class F fires the water will lower the temperature of the oil but in doing so it evaporates - there's nothing to prevent re-ignition should the oil reach its auto-ignition temperature again.  Using wet chemical, the oil turns into a non-combustible substance thereby preventing re-ignition.

On the subject of fire tests to EN3.  If you actually see a class A test fire, the chap carrying out the test will be wearing full fire fighting gear and they get very close to the fire.  I saw one test where the guy's visor was bubbling when he had finished - without the protective gear he wouldn't be able to get anywhere near the fire to put it out with a water mist extinguisher.  The image below is of a 55A test fire which is the largest class A test fire.  Okay, water extinguishers are not tested on a 55A fire but imagine a fire approx 25% as long and you get the idea.  The point I'm trying to make is that discharge length is important and with water mist you're going to be limited to small fires at close range.  I know you're only supposed to use extinguishers on small fires but I'd like the option thanks very much.
Water mist is not the Holy Grail.  If the price for a water mist was the same as a regular water spray then they may be considered as an alternative in certain circumstances; until then they're a non-starter.

[AnthonyB]

^^^^

What he said!

[SamFIRT]

None of which detracts from the point that if someone's clothing catches fire the first thing to do is put it out immediately by getting them to STOP DROP and Roll.

Then, the burns need to be treated, by the application of cool water for 20 mins, without hypothermia being allowed to set in.

Faffing around looking for a fire extinguisher and selecting the most appropriate one, will only let the person suffer more burning, leading to horrific injuries, possible disfigurement and even death.

The original point of this thread was regarding clothing on fire, not a debate about the merits and de merits of various extinguishers. This is symptomatic of a loss of viewpoint. Our profession is about public safety. Not a point scoring exercise regarding the best equipment to provide. Or a sales pitch.

End of rant........ sorry, ............I just don't want to see anyone else burnt unnecessarily.

[Paul2886]

Quite agree. Seems its often used as an exercise to complicate some very simple issues and make a science out of just about everything that arises

[lancsfirepro]

Apologies if anyone is upset with the path this thread has taken.  The original poster seemed happy with the comments and IMO changed the topic to discuss the application of fire extinguishers.

Thanks guys for your responses, and assuming artificial candle light is not acceptable think the starting point should be, stop, wrap, drop and roll, then cool the burns for 20 mins.
It appears the insurers have recommended that fire blankets should be available for this purpose but no details provided. Because you cannot predict the extent of the fire the larger the better and 1.8 m X 1.2 m seems to be the best choice.
But as Anthony mention BCF proved useful in the past could there not be an alternative 9l water spray, 6lt dry mist water which would not only extinguisher the fire it would cool as well.

As the water mist extinguisher is pretty new out and few people had actually had a play with one I thought it appropriate to discuss it.

[Tom Sutton]

Going off subject happens all the time and providing its good information I see no problem. Improving the knowledge pool can only be good and lancs input was worth while.