Bedrooms as inner rooms in post war CP3 flats

[ian gough]

A BS9251 sprinkler system would be the most cost effective option. Check out the Callow Mount Report.

[kurnal]

Heres a link to info on the Callow Mount project.
http://www.hallfire.co.uk/callow.pdf

This tower block originally had "kick out panels" linking flat balconies for means of escape purposes. How many people would feel secure with such an arrangement now? Would linking balconies  with kick out panels provide a safer solution than sprinklers? What if the neighbours are out?

http://www.thewookie.co.uk/skyscrapers/index3.html

As Cleveland infers where sprinklers are used in conjunction with inner bedrooms in flats, I have heard it suggested that residents should stay put in the bedroom in the event of a fire in the lounge. Is this best practice? Could it work for families with children in other bedrooms? For how long should they stay put?

Would be interested in Ians and other views on this.

[ian gough]

Kurnal, the concept of installing sprinklers is not about 'stay put' but escape through the room of origin where sprinklers maintain tenable conditions. This is considered possible from the BRE research published 2004 and the NHBC Foundation work re inner rooms in flats. Indeed, it is the NHBC research that resulted in BS9991 saying what it does re inner rooms. Colin will be pleased to learn that Scotland has embraced this strategy.

[William 29]

Interestingly a fire risk assessment we did a few years ago has come up for review on this subject.  We noted that some of the flats have an external vertical metal ladder via a patio door and small balcony at the rear of the flat.  The ladders looked like a relatively new addtion and we questioned the internal layout of the flats and why the ladders have been provided, some extend the the flats on the 3rd floor.  After fruther investigations in turns out that the access to and from the bedroom is via the kitchen and the ladders are provided as an alternative M of E.

We still don't feel this is acceptable as how would you ensure that the occupants are physically able to use this escape?  I still think the internal layouts need to be reconfigured or an external stair provided?

Any thoughts?

[colin todd]

Ian , if you are a baby in a cot, how do you get up and walk through the smoke, fire, hot, toxic gases and sprinkler discharge.

[Clevelandfire 3]

Kurnal, the concept of installing sprinklers is not about 'stay put' but escape through the room of origin where sprinklers maintain tenable conditions. This is considered possible from the BRE research published 2004 and the NHBC Foundation work re inner rooms in flats. Indeed, it is the NHBC research that resulted in BS9991 saying what it does re inner rooms. Colin will be pleased to learn that Scotland has embraced this strategy.

Ian what are the suggested /emgineered/ designed /proven escape times for this to all become possible at 3.00am in the morning when start up time after hearing the alarm will be considerable

[ian gough]

Colin: you don't. And you don't make you way through a protected route either. 

[colin todd]

Ah, Ian, so mum and dad just evacuate the dwelling and say not to worry about our little baby cos those sprinklers are so terrific it will be fine in its wee bedroom, possibly with the door between the bedroom and the lounge, in which there is a sprinkler controlled fire, open.

Beware low flying pigs, they drop about as much crap as you can read in BS 9991.

[ian gough]

Ooo you do love shifting goalposts Colin!