NI care home sector given clear advice.

[Kelsall]

The Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority in NI have sent a letter to all managers and proprietors of regulated care homes.

This letter recommends the use of competent fire risk assessors who are on registers or certification schemes as a minimum selection requirement. It does recommend that the best assurance can be gained from those on UKAS accredited schemes for companies.

Very useful for those practitioners in NI who are registered on professional body schemes as they will be picking up the work I assume.

More should be done to directly promote conformity assurance here in mainland UK. I spoke with an enforcement officer yesterday who wanted to know more about the actual process used to assess the individuals for the various registers so he could explain it to RPs in his patch. He was surprised at the differences between them and couldn't see how such a variety of schemes was beneficial to the RP.

[nearlythere]

Not really. Risk Assessments will have all been completed by competent assessors, registered assessors, managers and owners anyway.
I have seen some by all four and can assure you that being a "registered" assessor certainly does not mean a suitable and sufficient FRA has been undertaken. In fact the opposite. Some certified and registered assessors tend to think themselves as the bees knees and can do no wrong. Believe me they certainly can as can competent ones. But I generally find that competent assessors, those who have real fire safety experience and bad filing systems, know their limitations better than registered ones and will decline work, because they understand the consequences of not providing good assessment.

I was speaking to a former Fire Service colleague a few weeks ago about the state of FRAs in NI and he told me of a premises  which saw fit to import two fire risk assessors from the mainland, who charged £3000 for an assessment. He said it was one of the worst he has audited and was on the verge of rejecting it as being unsuitable and insufficient.

I even have a residential care home which was audited by a RQIA inspector who, when asked what he thought of the fire safety arrangements in the premises, replied that it looked ok to him and it's really only common sense after all.

This was a home which had most of its bedroom doors wedged open and an evacuation strategy which did not go any further than moving residents to a landing and waiting for the Fire Service to arrive. The nearest fire station was retained and 8 miles away.

Think I will send a copy of this to RQIA.

[nearlythere]

Further to this, and yes I'm still angry, if the Fire Service here would grow a pair of balls and start to prosecute some of the authors of the poor fire risk assessments, the BAFE registered fire alarm engineers who install fire alarms systems with flat twin and earth and the electricians who wire emergency lighting circuit back to the mains isolation switch then maybe the RPs might be better protected from the many competent, registered and certified cowboys.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Tom Sutton]

For those that doesn't know what the RGIA is check out http://www.rqia.org.uk/home/index.cfm they do good seminars it appears?

[nearlythere]

For those that doesn't know what the RGIA is check out http://www.rqia.org.uk/home/index.cfm they do good seminars it appears?

Would my RQIA inspector who, when asked what he thought of the fire safety arrangements in the premises, replied that it "looked ok to him and it's really only common sense after all" be one of the seminar presenters by chance?

[colin todd]

Kel, cracking letter isnt it. Just what you have always wanted. Pressure on duty holders to have their FRAs done properly.  The RQIA are to be congratulated. On a point of basic geography, Kel, old chap. last time I looked NI was part of the UK.

Tam, you are right. Cracking seminars. Do you want a free ticket?

Nearly, worry not. The seminars involve external speakers, but you are too hard on the nice men from RQIA who are doing a good job, as evidenced by their balls to do something no other EA or regulator in this country has done. Personally, I salute them.

[nearlythere]

Kel, cracking letter isnt it. Just what you have always wanted. Pressure on duty holders to have their FRAs done properly.  The RQIA are to be congratulated. On a point of basic geography, Kel, old chap. last time I looked NI was part of the UK.

Tam, you are right. Cracking seminars. Do you want a free ticket?

Nearly, worry not. The seminars involve external speakers, but you are too hard on the nice men from RQIA who are doing a good job, as evidenced by their balls to do something no other EA or regulator in this country has done. Personally, I salute them.

As long as they stick to the tick sheets and keep well away from the important stuff like evacuation strategies and training then things should be fine.

[wee brian]

Is a copy of the letter on-line?

[nearlythere]

Is a copy of the letter on-line?

I have asked for a copy. Will post if provided. I will be able to get a copy from one of my care home clients.

[Kelsall]

Kel, cracking letter isnt it. Just what you have always wanted. Pressure on duty holders to have their FRAs done properly.  The RQIA are to be congratulated. On a point of basic geography, Kel, old chap. last time I looked NI was part of the UK.

Tam, you are right. Cracking seminars. Do you want a free ticket?

Nearly, worry not. The seminars involve external speakers, but you are too hard on the nice men from RQIA who are doing a good job, as evidenced by their balls to do something no other EA or regulator in this country has done. Personally, I salute them.

I recognise the style of writing and the words used; it is all spelt correctly too. Well done Colin! 

[nearlythere]

Kel, cracking letter isnt it. Just what you have always wanted. Pressure on duty holders to have their FRAs done properly.  The RQIA are to be congratulated. On a point of basic geography, Kel, old chap. last time I looked NI was part of the UK.

Tam, you are right. Cracking seminars. Do you want a free ticket?

Nearly, worry not. The seminars involve external speakers, but you are too hard on the nice men from RQIA who are doing a good job, as evidenced by their balls to do something no other EA or regulator in this country has done. Personally, I salute them.

I recognise the style of writing and the words used; it is all spelt correctly too. Well done Colin! 

Well I intend to help the search for excellence along. The next time I come across a ****e assessment by  those with the golden balls I will gladly refer it to the enforcement authority. Even the tick sheets which say nothing.

[colin todd]

Kel, I imagine the spelling arises from the NI education system and their failure to abandon grammer schools.  I forgive you and blame the schools.

[DavyFire]

Hi all,
       I must say my experience of the RQIA in N. Ireland has been positive. I have been involved in a number of premises where they have had fire safety issues. They (RQIA) are no fools as some believe. They know thier job and what is required. Ultimately they are there to protect the vulnerable in our society, in care homes, hospitals etc. My elderly mother is one of them. They may not always get it 100% right, but I suggest better than other areas of the UK.
Wee b, I attach a copy of the letter from RQIA

[kurnal]

The letter states "Subsequently as of 1 April 2014, I would ask providers to ensure that all new fire risk assessments and those due for review are so carried out by a person, or, preferably, a company, holding appropriate registration or certification, such as outlined above.
RQIA inspectors will seek confirmation of this during regular inspection activity."

Is this enforceable? How does it sit with Regulation 17-7?

"17 (7) Where there is a competent person in the employment of a person with duties under Article 25 or 26, that competent person shall be nominated for the purposes of paragraph (1) in preference to a competent person not in his employment.

The definition of competent int he regulations is as follows" competent” in relation to a person means that the person has sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities to enable that person—
 
(a)in relation to regulation 12(3)(b), properly to implement the measure referred to in that regulation;
 
(b)in relation to regulation 14(1)(b), properly to implement the evacuation procedures referred to in that regulation; and
 
(c)in relation to regulation 17(1), properly to assist in undertaking the fire safety measures; "

[colin todd]

Kurnal, If they want to use in-house people who they get onto one of the registers, then that would probably be fine.  Cant see what the issue is. If anyone thinks that it is not enforceable, they can mount a legal challenge.  However, given that 14 people died but some or all need not have died if the FRA for Rosepark had been suitable and sufficient, I am not sure that a Court would have a lot of sympathy for a demand to have FRAs done by people with no third party assurance of competence.