Author Topic: Authorising Engineer (Fire) [External Specialist]  (Read 12538 times)

Offline lingmoor

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Authorising Engineer (Fire) [External Specialist]
« on: May 03, 2013, 09:27:43 AM »
on page 19 of the new HTM 05-01 there are one or two changes to the original document with regards the Authorising Engineer (Fire)...er which you might expect cos it's new!

The new doc. states that the AE will act as assessor and monitor the performance of fire safety management and provide an annual audit to the Board Level director....whereby the previous HTM states that the AE will be engaged if a 'specific fire-engineered solution' has been identified and in-house resources have limited expert knowledge.

Unless I'm reading it wrong, this seems to be a huge difference in the role

Also it says that the AE will make recommendations for the appointment of the Authorised Person (Fire) ...commonly known as Fire Safety Advisor!...I take it that is if the Healthcare organisation hasn't already got one....which would be unusual...or would they recommend the current poor sod me sacked  ;D

anyway...has anyone actually brought in an AE?

I am a Trust FSA and to be honest I would welcome someone coming in assessing my shortfalls (or otherwise!) but had to admit my eyebrows were raised at this not so slight change

cheers
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 09:39:45 AM by lingmoor »

Offline Colin Newman

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Re: Authorising Engineer (Fire) [External Specialist]
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2013, 07:23:36 PM »
The new edition of HTM05-01 specifically addresses issues that are common in the NHS which includes a general confusion of policy and procedures, a silo management structure, insular fire safety activity, and a lack of co-ordinated monitoring and audit.

The role of Authorising Engineer (Fire) has been clarified further than the previous version of the guidance to specifically address the issues identified and provide a more robust fire safety monitoring and audit regime.

As for advising on the appointment of the Authorised Person (Fire), the role of the AE is really providing technical capability to the recruitment panel where an AP is being appointed.  In rare circumstances the AE may be asked to comment upon the incumbent AP and their capabilities.

I act as an AE for a number of trusts and my involvement could be anything from a quick piece of advice, assisting in recruitment, carrying out a fire safety audit to establishing the full fire safety management system complete with policy, protocols, training needs analysis, training syllabuses etc.

Offline lingmoor

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Re: Authorising Engineer (Fire) [External Specialist]
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 09:39:02 AM »
The new edition of HTM05-01 specifically addresses issues that are common in the NHS which includes a general confusion of policy and procedures, a silo management structure, insular fire safety activity, and a lack of co-ordinated monitoring and audit.The role of Authorising Engineer (Fire) has been clarified further than the previous version of the guidance to specifically address the issues identified and provide a more robust fire safety monitoring and audit regime.

As for advising on the appointment of the Authorised Person (Fire), the role of the AE is really providing technical capability to the recruitment panel where an AP is being appointed.  In rare circumstances the AE may be asked to comment upon the incumbent AP and their capabilities.

I act as an AE for a number of trusts and my involvement could be anything from a quick piece of advice, assisting in recruitment, carrying out a fire safety audit to establishing the full fire safety management system complete with policy, protocols, training needs analysis, training syllabuses etc.


Yes I just googled Authorised Engineer (Fire) and the top of the list is your company Colin.


I would say if you have to do all that (in bold) then you would also be commenting upon the 'incumbent AP and their capabilities'!

Incidently Colin why does this person have to be a Chartered Engineer and a Member of the Institution of Fire Engineers?

I'm a Member of the Institution (by exam) but I wouldn't say that makes me any better than a Fire Safety professional who is not.

As I said in my earlier post I would welcome someone auditing my work and when myself and my line manager were going through the new document we agreed that it may be worth considering, my only reservation is that it is your professional opinion against mine... but hey ho  ;)

Offline Colin Newman

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Re: Authorising Engineer (Fire) [External Specialist]
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2013, 08:00:08 PM »
Glad to see that the SEO is working!!

You're probably right, however, it would depend what the AP has to work with.  Often they are capable and willing, but the internal politics, entrenched working practices and sense of "we don't have fires" make it difficult for the AP to implement significant changes.

The definition of "Authorising Engineer (Fire)" was changed from the technical engagement draft and in the published document states that they should be "a chartered fire engineer, or a chartered member of an appropriate professional body, with extensive experience in healthcare fire safety."  The reason for requiring chartered status was ensure that the individual concerned was registered with the engineering council, or similar, and would therefore be bound by that body's code of professional conduct.  This would provide some comfort that should they fail to uphold the professional code of conduct there would be redress and the potential that they could be removed from the professional register.