Statutory consultations under the Building Regulations

[kurnal]

Up and down England my experience is that  fire services are no longer respond to consultations under the Building Regulations  within the time scales suggested in the procedural guidance.  Working on three new distribution centres in England at the moment involving engineered solutions, one consultation went in on the 10 December 2012, another in Feb 2013, the other in early March, all in different regions.  Several phone calls made by the AI but still no formal response.

The demise of the statutory bar was a thoroughly Bad Thing in my view.

Is this a common problem?

[nearlythere]

Up and down England my experience is that  fire services are no longer respond to consultations under the Building Regulations  within the time scales suggested in the procedural guidance. 

Was this not kinda considered to have been resolved by the sending out an acknowledgement on receipt of a submission. I think was considered a response within the requisite time.

[Midland Retty]

Did the Brigade's in question acknowledge receipt of the applications?

[Mike Buckley]

In my limited experience, the usual reply is in general, 'looks ok subject to a Fire Risk Assessment'

[jokar]

Perhaps it is because FRS staff are busy.  Fewer of the fire safety professionals about within the ranks so jobs take longer, plus they have targets to do.  Enforcement of the Order is their specific job and consultation stuff, be it Building consultation or Environmental health stuff is secondary to that.  Must keep to the targets!!

[AnthonyB]

In one example recently in a building with engineered solutions that was being altered again (enough to need re-engineering) & having to go through Building Regs approval, all the FRS sent was a standard letter about keeping exits clear, testing EL and updating the FRA

[kurnal]

Thanks to all, yes its a bit of a confidence factor for the client. If they reply with a general letter that's fine - they clearly don't have any objection in principle.

If they don't reply at all or just acknowledge the application the client may fear that they might come out with a game changer after the building has been put up.

[William 29]

Thanks to all, yes its a bit of a confidence factor for the client. If they reply with a general letter that's fine - they clearly don't have any objection in principle.

If they don't reply at all or just acknowledge the application the client may fear that they might come out with a game changer after the building has been put up.

I have thought for a while now this one may come up. If a building regs application goes in and the FRS don't respond in the 15 days or at all, building gets built, then audited by same FRS 12 months down the line and it doesn't comply with ADB and breaches Articles of the RRFSO, can they serve a Notice to bring the building up to required standards? Surely the client would have a good argument to say we submitted plans for them to consult but the FRS gave no reply.  It will come up this one if not already and will be an interesting one to watch.

[nearlythere]

Thanks to all, yes its a bit of a confidence factor for the client. If they reply with a general letter that's fine - they clearly don't have any objection in principle.

If they don't reply at all or just acknowledge the application the client may fear that they might come out with a game changer after the building has been put up.

I have thought for a while now this one may come up. If a building regs application goes in and the FRS don't respond in the 15 days or at all, building gets built, then audited by same FRS 12 months down the line and it doesn't comply with ADB and breaches Articles of the RRFSO, can they serve a Notice to bring the building up to required standards? Surely the client would have a good argument to say we submitted plans for them to consult but the FRS gave no reply.  It will come up this one if not already and will be an interesting one to watch.

What I have found in my past life William is that even if FS had made comment BC said it can't enforce if it is not a Building Regulation. Should a building which complies with B Regs have to do anything other than managent issues?

[William 29]

I know what you are saying NT but even though the BCO has made comment I think a time is coming where serious fire safety issues will be missed and these will be breaches of the RRFSO. Can the FA then have a second bite of the cherry??  In the city centre office where I was a fire safety officer we had 2 officers solely dedicated to building regs, that's all they did all day long, 5 days a week.  We also had 14 inspecting officers; the same office now has 4 officers to cover the same amount of work since the RRFSO came in.

From my understanding, they will look at the complex buildings that come in and make comment; others either get a "no comment" response or none at all. I also think the building regs expertise to make any worthwhile comment is disappearing fast.

[jokar]

Losing the Statutory bar have made a significant change as well as the Article in the Order.  Consultation is just that and some Local Authorities take no notice of FRS comment anyway.  The pressure is then on the RP once installed so that any Notice isued by the FRS will be that persons to deal with.

[Mike Buckley]

I have a feeling Catch 22 is at work here. Whether or not the Fire Authority reply to the application they will turn round and argue that it should all be subject to a suiable and sufficient FRA. If they find fault and issue a notice the FRA was obviously not suitable and sufficient!!!

The only argument could be the competence of the enforcing officer (step in Colin the Toddmeister)

[nearlythere]

Can you carry out a FRA on a building which is at the design or construction stage?

[jokar]

The Building Regulations, Regulation 38, could be this document. It has been likened in the past to the first FRA.  However, in the same way as the also required Access Statement, it doesn't not appear.