Author Topic: Misleading FRA's  (Read 42002 times)

Offline Golden

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #60 on: October 22, 2013, 05:46:30 PM »
Another good day in the office then?  ;D  ;D  ;D

Offline firescot10

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #61 on: October 22, 2013, 07:28:11 PM »
Do what my employers are doing, tying in with a local authority fire service to 'approve' my individual risk assessments. Its been a long process for them, started before I joined them in June this year, but seems to be a sensible approach in the long run. They inspected some sample FRA's recently completed by myself, and, apart for some wording changes, were generally happy with the content. I have used the bum basic PAS-79 2012 version, with very few changes apart from a few corporate logos; their view was, as its the 'industry standard' form, they would be happy to back it.
Tin hat on!!
 ;D

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #62 on: October 22, 2013, 08:02:11 PM »
Do what my employers are doing, tying in with a local authority fire service to 'approve' my individual risk assessments. Its been a long process for them, started before I joined them in June this year, but seems to be a sensible approach in the long run. They inspected some sample FRA's recently completed by myself, and, apart for some wording changes, were generally happy with the content. I have used the bum basic PAS-79 2012 version, with very few changes apart
 from a few corporate logos; their view was, as its the 'industry standard' form, they would be happy to back it.
Tin hat on!!
 ;D
Industry standard?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Dinnertime Dave

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2013, 10:39:40 PM »
then a department could be set up containing some of the self-righteous holier than thou sorts (assessors and IO’s who appear on this site) 

No offence taken!

Offline jokar

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2013, 09:46:28 AM »
Ouch!!


Offline longjohn

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2013, 10:47:27 PM »
Not aimed at any one in particular, I just sometimes find it almost amusing how over technical and complex some contributors get over a piece of legislation that was supposed to be DIY fire safety that the RP could do themselves for the vast majority of premises (SME’s), too much fear selling in my view. 

Offline AnthonyB

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2013, 11:04:08 PM »
The reason it hasn't worked out as DIY Fire Safety that the RP could do is that it hasn't worked and quite a few SME's have ended up being prosecuted precisely because they couldn't or wouldn't do it yourself.....just like the enthusiastic home DIY bod who ends up spending a fortune on contractors when his work falls apart!

To be fair I have seen some more than adequate in house FRAs by smaller organisations that put some third party reports to shame, upset sometimes by over zealous advice from the suppliers of their fire protection equipment.
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Offline longjohn

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #67 on: October 25, 2013, 10:26:06 AM »
Would agree on both points Anthony, although on some occasions the prosecutions are borne out of the ill informed and uneducated SME's learning the hard way. For those outside of the  'fire bubble' surviving the recession etc. fire safety isn't high on their snag lists, we may think it should be and it needs a higher profile but that should have been backed up with better government publicity, lets face it 7 years ago the RRO didn't come in with bells and whistles did it? was it on the telly? were there large bill boards in towns and cities? most companies probably did what most of us do with leaflets through the door. The only people who made a big splash about it were those from certain sectors of the fire industry selling fear and trepidation to the SME's. I've lost count how many times I've been to seminars where some speaker from a fire industry firm has blurted out 'far reaching implications' and 'serious consequences or 'end users need to be aware of the implications'  to name but a few. I've got to the point where I scribble these phrases on the back of a piece of paper and entertain myself by ticking them off as they come through, you should try it sometime!! fire bingo, sadly I get a full house each time so if anyone can give me some others to add?

Offline Mike Buckley

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #68 on: October 25, 2013, 02:39:39 PM »
In my view the major part of the problem was an over simplified view taken by the government at the start of the whole process. They seemed to think that Fire Safety could be dealt with in the same way as Health and Safety. The problem comes that with Health and Safety the majority of the issues tend to be in front of people every day, very few people have close experience of fire (those that have are usually in the fire industry).

That combined with a political agenda to reduce the cost of the fire service got us into this situation.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Offline Fraudley

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #69 on: October 28, 2013, 01:49:38 PM »
Interesting thread.
Maybe the answer is that ALL fire risk assessments have to be sent to the local fire authority (with a fee of course to cover the admin)  then a department could be set up containing some of the self-righteous holier than thou sorts (assessors and IO’s who appear on this site)  who could spend their time going through the assessments and rejecting the crap ones in an instant and you could sit and talk about the good old days when fire certificates were the baby of the fire authority and you all had such control and things were so much better then!     

I was going to reply longjohn, but I really don't think I should. Maybe you should go back to the beginning and read my initial point.

Regards,

A Holier than thou sort!

Offline longjohn

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2013, 08:53:44 PM »
Go down the page to Mike Buckleys comment

'I am afraid the only worry I have is the quality of some of the enforcing officers and the attitudes of the brigades. There is some very good work going on out there but there is also some which is terrible'

people in glass houses and all that.............

Offline Mike Buckley

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2013, 12:57:07 PM »
No, I am quite happy to admit that there are a large number of people carrying out awful Fire Risk Assessments but there are also people carrying out some excellent work.

It is the same within the enforcing authorities, there are a lot of very good people but there are also some where you read their reports and you wonder which planet they are on!

And yes I have been round sites where it is obvious that a previous FRA was carried out by a salesperson from fire extinguisher/alarm companies.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2013, 03:28:12 PM »
No, I am quite happy to admit that there are a large number of people carrying out awful Fire Risk Assessments but there are also people carrying out some excellent work.

It is the same within the enforcing authorities, there are a lot of very good people but there are also some where you read their reports and you wonder which planet they are on!

And yes I have been round sites where it is obvious that a previous FRA was carried out by a salesperson from fire extinguisher/alarm companies.
What do you think of a pest control person offering to do a FRA for a restaurant free if it gave him their pest control business. I kid you not. This happened in a shopping centre in Newry, County Down. And to coin it all he got the job.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Midland Retty

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2013, 04:41:23 PM »

What do you think of a pest control person offering to do a FRA for a restaurant free if it gave him their pest control business. I kid you not. This happened in a shopping centre in Newry, County Down. And to coin it all he got the job.

Does not suprise me - I've heard a gas engineer for quite a well known company will also do you a nice FRA once he has serviced your commercial heating equipment.

Offline longjohn

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2013, 07:43:13 PM »
and the fire officer who will do one for you................ as long as it's outside of his Brigade