AppDocBDomestic

[stevew]

What has the world come to.
Why when providing a first floor bedroom no more than 4.5m from ground level in a single storey dwelling do I have to provide anything other than a BS detection system.
How when the document makes reference to its use as a guide and of the need to risk assess the situation do LA Inspectors fail to support any flexibility.
Am I missing something?

[AnthonyB]

What have they asked for instead/in addition?

[kurnal]

Betcha the BCO has applied the guidance for loft conversions without thinking  it through with regard to the height of the building

[stevew]

They have asked for either an escape window or protected route.
I accept that this is referred to in ADB but in my opinion must be assessed rather than 'must have' in all cases.
Anyone any experience in a LA assessing each case on its own merits offering a more flexible approach.
Or are we forced to succumb in order to have the job signed off.

[nearlythere]

Steve. I have found that BC give no consideration to Risk Assessment. And even in their own guidance they have selective reading deficiency where they cannot see words like "where" & "necessary". I see Pt1 AFD installed everywhere in every non domestic type and size of premises. I'm convinced many BC officers have second jobs in the Fire Alarm industry.

I had a case of a new two storey dwelling with an open plan ground floor which the staircase discharged into near the front door. BC wanted the openable windows and an alternative protected route giving three means of escape from the first floor.

[stevew]

I have agreed to contact the LA on behalf of a friend with a common sense risk assessment approach.
You can see why I am frustrated even before any contact.
Without wanting to appeal a decision my friend appears to have two choices one of which is cost effective and safe but not signed off by the LA.

[wee brian]

The BCO is right - whats the problem with providing an escape window?

[stevew]

Wee Brian

Because it is unreasonable!!

[wee brian]

Really - a window just big enough to climb through. how is that unreasonable? (its been in the AD for 13 years!!!)

Is it that you dont want a window? or is it that opening windows is a bit hard?

[nearlythere]

Its worst than unreasonable Steve, it's just stupid, IMHO. Stupid when there is nothing wrong with upgrading AFD to ensure you don't have to jump out of a window and kill yourself on a fence post. And stupid when there is no knowing how granny is going to cope or how you get your babies and yourself out of a window safely. But the powers that be have decided this is the way it is and this is how it has to be throughout the land. You can kick and scream for ever and a day but all you are going top achieve is high blood pressure.

We all have to live with the fact that, with many BCOs, common sense is not very common.

[wee brian]

You people are all nuts.

When replacement glazing became popular, lots of people fitted windows that had tiny fanlights in them. When their houses caught fire they died. So it was decided that windows on upper floors should be big enough to escape through.

I cant see what so hard about :

A) - providing a window (unless you are a mole)

B) - being able to open it (unless you dont need air to breath)

[nearlythere]

You people are all nuts.

When replacement glazing became popular, lots of people fitted windows that had tiny fanlights in them. When their houses caught fire they died. So it was decided that windows on upper floors should be big enough to escape through.

I cant see what so hard about :

A) - providing a window (unless you are a mole)

B) - being able to open it (unless you dont need air to breath)

Come on Wee Brian.
Would your granny be able to do it?
Would a disabled person be able to do it?
Would a woman and baby be able to do it?
Would wee Jimmy with his leg in plaster be able to do it?
Would a disabled person be able to do it?

And when enforcing these prescriptive recommendations there is no mention anywhere on the ability of the person in the room.

[nearlythere]

You people are all nuts.

When replacement glazing became popular, lots of people fitted windows that had tiny fanlights in them. When their houses caught fire they died. So it was decided that windows on upper floors should be big enough to escape through.

I cant see what so hard about :

A) - providing a window (unless you are a mole)

B) - being able to open it (unless you dont need air to breath)

And yes we are all Googa. Why don't you join us?

[Paul2886]

Should imagine the fire brigade would prefer an escape window to effect  a rescue rather than a fanlight. So not just for persons to independently escape from perhaps. A granny would probably survive that method of rescue than being dragged down a smoke filled staircase

[nearlythere]

Should imagine the fire brigade would prefer an escape window to effect  a rescue rather than a fanlight. So not just for persons to independently escape from perhaps. A granny would probably survive that method of rescue than being dragged down a smoke filled staircase

I'm sure the Fire Brigade would prefer a means where people are able to leave by the main stairway Paul on any occasion. I just wonder if this escape/rescue window is really there for the neighbours. Guidance now will stipulate that an evacuation procedure  must not be reliant on the attendance of the fire service which seems to me that, in the future, the level of fire cover could be wound down a bit. If they can't be relied on to attend offices, shop et al in a reasonable time then surely likewise dwellings.