National Fire Safe Register

[Tom Sutton]

Is now the time for a National Fire Safe Register? BM TRADA seeks further views

http://www.means-of-escape.com/content/now-time-national-fire-safe-register-bm-trada-seeks-further-views

[colin todd]

Not even worth responding to Tam, as it will never happen.

[Tom Sutton]

Nevertheless I think it would be a goof idea, run by the government or maybe FIA who would nominate suitable organisations to be certified registrars who would test candidates to a required standard using the  FIRE RISK ASSESSMENT COMPETENCY COUNCIL Competency Criteria for Fire Risk Assessors, as a syllabus and include them on the national register when they meet the standard.

The chance are slim be you never know.

[Mike Buckley]

The chance are slim be you never know.

Yes, snowball in hell springs to mind.

[wee brian]

How would a mandatory system work?

Notallowed to talk about fire safety unless registered?
Not allowed to advise on fire safety unless registered?

What would you prohibit exactly?

[Tom Sutton]

How would a mandatory system work?

Notallowed to talk about fire safety unless registered?
Not allowed to advise on fire safety unless registered?

What would you prohibit exactly?

Who suggests it should be mandatory?

[wee brian]

If your talking a voluntary register, then there are already lots of them.

[Tom Sutton]

That is the point, RP's would only have to consult one register instead having to decide which of the four should s/he use.

[Golden]

Most of them don't know there are four so what chance would they have of finding one??

This would just give "carte blanche" for the accrediting bodies to hike the fees up - don't think it would give anything to the RPs. To be honest its the same situation with FRS/FBs as its pot luck there too!!

[Kelsall]

The concept is a bit broader in its approach than just fire risk assessors and would be an attempt to remove the credibility of those cowboys who are operating in the fire safety field. Credibility is so easy to establish these days; with a decent website and a van with some decals on, anyone can be anything in the fire sector overnight.
Those that have third party approval already from a UKAS accredited body in any fire related field would be eligible to be listed on the 'Fire Safe Register'. This register would be a searchable site for the RP or their representative; a sort of amazon with pre-qualification. It would not be mandatory nor should it have any significant additional cost to those who appear on it.
Those who don't want to be on it can continue to operate as they do now. The idea is to signpost a single point of reference for fire with a hefty amount of due diligence built in to any selection they make from that list.
It is a simple concept that should help improve the RPs lot and create a commercial advantage for those on the register. Sorry but those who are good and have no third party are swimming in the same pool as the poor with no third party. When an RP goes fishing for services or products he doesn’t know what is coming out of the water. This in concept is a stocked fishery with only stocked fish of known pedigree.
The RPs would find this register very high up in the Google search results and they would find it very difficult to ignore the register when looking for fire safety services or products. This should drive up standards and marginalise the poor providers. I have no doubt it will marginalise some of the good ones too but to improve we have to move on and this is a positive development that could happen.

[nearlythere]

The concept is a bit broader in its approach than just fire risk assessors and would be an attempt to remove the credibility of those cowboys who are operating in the fire safety field. Credibility is so easy to establish these days; with a decent website and a van with some decals on, anyone can be anything in the fire sector overnight.
Those that have third party approval already from a UKAS accredited body in any fire related field would be eligible to be listed on the 'Fire Safe Register'. This register would be a searchable site for the RP or their representative; a sort of amazon with pre-qualification. It would not be mandatory nor should it have any significant additional cost to those who appear on it.
Those who don't want to be on it can continue to operate as they do now. The idea is to signpost a single point of reference for fire with a hefty amount of due diligence built in to any selection they make from that list.
It is a simple concept that should help improve the RPs lot and create a commercial advantage for those on the register. Sorry but those who are good and have no third party are swimming in the same pool as the poor with no third party. When an RP goes fishing for services or products he doesn’t know what is coming out of the water. This in concept is a stocked fishery with only stocked fish of known pedigree.
The RPs would find this register very high up in the Google search results and they would find it very difficult to ignore the register when looking for fire safety services or products. This should drive up standards and marginalise the poor providers. I have no doubt it will marginalise some of the good ones too but to improve we have to move on and this is a positive development that could happen.

Start one Kelsall. One register of all registered assessors regardless who registered with.

[Golden]

"anyone can be anything in the fire sector overnight"

And there are some around here that testify to that!!

"stocked fish of known pedigree"

- at this time everybody is swimming in the same pool and that's the way it should stay. I've dipped my toe into UKAS TPA but withdrew rapidly when it became apparent that there is absolutely nothing in it for the small business but costs and hassle. The serious RPs aren't interested as they know quality when they see it and the vast majority of RPs just don't know anything and really aren't bothered about anything but a cheap FRA. If I have to do it again (TPA) it will be as easy as it was the first time - just get the paperwork straight and pick a few local and simple examples - I may even set up a business getting people through the process as that may be a nice little earner too. The 'non-UKAS' IFE register interview was much more technical and was a proper examination of knowledge; its about time they got themselves UKAS registered and become the masters of any register.

"nor should it have any significant additional cost"

- significant? That is a matter of perspective linked to turnover.

[William 29]

I still feel that if we in the fire industry don't support and promote 3rd party certification then who will?

Some major RP's in my experience are getting wise to the cheaper non certificated FRAs. I have now dealt with two very large housing providers that went for cheap and cheerful FRAs, paid out several hundred thousands of unnecessary pounds on upgrading the FR, common fire alarms, emergency lighting etc. and are now having the FRAs done again.

We also have the Fire Risk Assessment Competency Council where anyone worth anything in the fire industry contributed to and issued the "guide to choosing a competent assessor". If things go badly wrong for a large RP they would need to justify in Court why they chose to ignore this guide and select a non UKAS accredited assessor or company. I think its only a matter of time for this to come up in the Courts.

[Tom Sutton]

If things go badly wrong for a large RP they would need to justify in Court why they chose to ignore this guide and select a non UKAS accredited assessor or company.

Of the four registers recommend only one is UKAS accredited, FRACS the others are not but I am more than happy with that. With the reputation of IFE I do not believe they need to be UKAS accredited and the other two (IFPO, IFSM) I am not sure about.

[AnthonyB]

BAFE SP205 is UKAS accredited, apparently the FRACS UKAS only extends to their individual, not their company scheme.