National Fire Safe Register

[William 29]

BAFE SP205 is UKAS accredited, apparently the FRACS UKAS only extends to their individual, not their company scheme.

That is correct although I am told that the FRACS Company scheme will gain UKAS soon. There is also another scheme that is UKAS accredited  but the name escapes me?

[Tom Sutton]

Check out http://www.notts-fire.gov.uk/Documents/A_Guide_to_Choosing_a_Competent_Fire_Risk_Assessor.pdf

[colin todd]

Tam the FRACC doc is available for download from lots of sites including FIA and BAFE.  I admire your discerning approach to certification and registration , and as chairman of the IFE Panel responsible for registering fire risk assessors and auditors as competent I am grateful for your support.

Willie: IFC Certification have a UKAS accredited scheme. The BAFE scheme goes from strength to strength and is growing all the time.

[William 29]

Support grows for fire safety register

Proposal to create a national fire safety register to promote competence and compliance for installers, maintainers and registered fire risk assessors was discussed during a Parliamentary seminar.

The plan, which was first discussed at the Fire Sector Summit in October, is for an umbrella register that would gather together all the existing accredited schemes under a single brand, which could be widely promoted.

The issue was further debated on 4 December at a seminar in the House of Commons, which was organised by the Association for Specialist Fire Protection (ASFP). Delegates heard that clear evidence from incidents such as at Lakanal House indicates that significant problems lie with installations in buildings that are less than fit for purpose and with key professionals failing to ask the right questions at the right time, or cutting corners and eroding specifications along the construction chain. With the fire safety order raising concerns, a register could give assurance to those lacking in-house expertise to decide if an installation is correct.

Speaking at the seminar, Chair of the Passive Fire Protection Federation Mike Wood explained that an online survey, conducted by BM TRADA, had shown strong support for such a scheme, with over 90% of respondents agreeing that there should be a National Fire Safe Register and 95% of those respondents saying that they would use it.

Mr Wood declared that this was the strongest indication that such a scheme would be well supported and, if implemented, would provide an essential step in improving standards across the UK. He said: ‘A National Fire Safe Register is the natural next step and I trust the fire safety sector through the Fire Sector Federation will plan to take it. As the responsible body, I don’t see how we can avoid that step. It is simply an obligation to those who rely on fire safety.

‘Installation and maintenance are critical. We know as a sector that correct installation for all fire protection systems is fundamental in achieving proper function in protecting against fire, according to product and system design. We also know from industry feedback that too many installations are carried out below standard.’

[William 29]

Has anyone heard what would be required to gain access on to this National Register if it ever comes off? i.e. UKAS accredited individual or company or IFSM, NAFRAR registers etc?

[Tom Sutton]

They are nowhere near that stage William they haven't got to base 1 yet, if they ever do, I still have "snowballs in hell" ringing in my ears.

[William 29]

 

[Kelsall]

William you will be fine with your SP 205 and Tom check out who owns the domain names.

It is on the way; I think it is just a question of ownership and where the money comes from! 10 K should enable the whole thing to be developed and working.

The criteria has to be set at accredited third party level, and as certification already exist for many services and products in the fire sector; those eligible just need transferring to a searchable web site.

Simples!

[Mike Buckley]

It sees to me that this is another 'Everybody, somebody and anybody' scenario in line with the Risk Assessors Registers.

Everybody agrees there should be a register, somebody should set one up and anybody can set one up. There is already a proliferation of different bodies in the field and all of the could set up a register if they so wanted.

The only people who could set up a national register with any legitimacy is the government, who will view it as  a bar to 'competition' or someone like the BRE. Otherwise it will descend into the cat fight we have seen between the different Risk Assessor's register.

A good idea but I can't see it working.

[Kelsall]

Mike

Remember this is for the good of the RP and not those on the register. The benefits for those on the register will be real and should be financial however that is a fringe benefit. The real aim is to stop the difficulty in finding quality assured products and service providers. This will be much more than a rate a tradesman site; it will be a clear signpost to those who have an independent third party reference of a technical nature and not a personal nature.  The Fire Sector Federation is the logical owner for this, and their involvement would give it credibility and would drive the register. There is no question of it being a bar to competition as the system is voluntary and already exists in a disparate format.
In my opinion it would be a really good way of driving standards up. The government wants the industry to improve itself and this is one way of doing that.
‘Earned Recognition’ is what it is all about. These products and service providers are ‘Fire Safe’; of course there is a little more to it than just selecting someone off that register, but it could also be a really useful education tool too.   
Fire needs a …’One Stop Shop’ a holistic approach is the key to delivering fire safe buildings in the UK

[Tom Sutton]

Sorry Kelsall "Domain Names who owns them" explain a little more?

[Mike Buckley]

Forgive me for being cynical, but who exactly are the Fire Sector Federation? I have seen their website and there are a number of organisations listed who have got together but the question is what is their legitimacy?

For example I could gang together a number of the members of this forum and I could call it something like the 'Fire Advisors BB Association' and then claim that we are the natural home of a register for all Fire Advisors and charge £500 to become a member, when in fact we would be little more than a lobbying group.

My point is any number of bodies could set up a national register and without a legitimate backer with perceived authority (i.e. the government) they will be worthless and in the worst case a large cat fight.

I am not looking at it from the point of those on a register but from the point of view of the RP who needs to know that the register is actually worth something and not just a club for people who are prepared to pay the membership fee.

At the end of the day you only have to look at this forum and the discussion about the different Fire Risk Assessor registers and their actual value to the people on the register. It will remain the same the good RPs will check for competence and the bad ones will go for the cheapest quote.

By the way for the FSF website CAOFOA no longer exists it has changed to CFOA.

[Kelsall]

Tom
Base one would be buying the domain names I assume!
 .com, .co.uk and .org.uk are all taken. They were actually destined for another similar initiative, which used a different name in the end.
Someone saw the value in buying them; presumably if they are not being used they could be available!

[Kelsall]

Mike
The FSF is the fire industry ear and apart from the trade associations and professional bodies the FSF are the body driving fire safety in the UK. Many professional bodies and trade associations are members and I am guessing if you are a member of any such body they are represented on the Federation and therefore they represent you. The coroner from the Lakanal house inquest wrote to the FSF as ‘the’ industry body and asked if it could help with a response to the issues raised at the inquest. There are many issues that came from that inquest and the Federation is trying to address those issues. So it is a little bit more authoritative than you and your mates off the forum. I am also convinced that the fire minister also believes it represents the fire industry in the main. Indeed several of the most influential people in UK fire sit in on meetings and at working groups so I guess they give it added credibility.
I am sure I haven’t explained it well enough; the concept as I understand it is about getting the existing accredited third party schemes referenced in one place.
The aim of this being to give the end user more chance of finding an assured contractor or product. So for example if someone wanted to buy a fire door set they could search this register and all those with certification would appear in one data base. BMTRADA, CERTIFIRE, LPCB, and IFCC etc would all have their certification clients on the site.
I genuinely don’t see why that wouldn’t be a good thing!

[Tom Sutton]

Base 1, IMO would be agreeing to have a national register and who would run it, deciding on a website is way down the list.