Care Home Fire , Quebec

[lyledunn]

Paul, are you saying that staff should not tackle an incipient fire as a first priority? Rather they should commence an evacuation based on an activated ASD? My wife is involved with the care industry at a senior managerial level and from memory she says that RQAI requirements are a minimum of 2 staff per 38 residents. Those staff can often be from an agency and whist they will have fire safety training most will not have had practical training in the use of fire fighting equipment.

[nearlythere]

I am very fearful for the safety of those in care homes Lyle, both staff and residents.
I do have a number of homes where I do regular training. I have provided an evacuation strategy for each and I advocate two slightly different courses of action depending on the time of day.
During those times where there is an adequate number of staff I would incorporate a fire search in the procedure but only after the affected zone has been emptied. During times when staffing levels are at night time levels I suggest they forget the fire and focus on evacuation only.
But I do think that the quality of training and trainer is of utmost importance and I can tell you I know of some howlers.
One home had been advised by the trainer that if any staff were outside for a smoke and the fire alarm sounded they were not to re-enter the building.
One home had a fire evacuation strategy which was a cut and paste of one for a home in the south of England and the content bore no resemblance to the premises.
And one where the strategy was to evacuate residents into the corridor and wait for the fire service despite the nearest station, retained, being 10 miles away. I queried this with the owner and she was adamant they would be in attendance in a couple of minutes as they were only “up the road”. Maybe not surprisingly the regulatory body, she said, was happy with this strategy.
I was at a home a couple of years ago giving a fire safety talk, no evacuation strategy in place, and this home had one staff on at night. There were a number of awkward male residents on the first floor.
I usually take staff around the building to point out particular features and explain what they should expect should a fire break out and there a need to evacuate. The person on duty that night was a woman around 55 years of age and quite petite. I asked her how she would deal with the situation if the alarm went off at 3am in the morning. She said she would just get those outside as soon as possible. We talked about the upstairs residents, their degrees of mobility and the difficulties with moving them in an emergency and by one person.
This must have caused some concern to the staff because before the talk the owner wanted me to come back and do a fire safety audit. I never heard from her again. But, just to cover my posterior, I did write a letter to her outlining my concerns.
So I do have concerns for care homes especially multi storey and those which have been conversion jobs.
There is no doubt in my mind there is a tragedy around the corner. The only thing missing is the time and place for it to happen.

[Dinnertime Dave]

Paul, are you saying that staff should not tackle an incipient fire as a first priority? Rather they should commence an evacuation based on an activated ASD? My wife is involved with the care industry at a senior managerial level and from memory she says that RQAI requirements are a minimum of 2 staff per 38 residents. Those staff can often be from an agency and whist they will have fire safety training most will not have had practical training in the use of fire fighting equipment.

Base my audits on HTM 84 -

Less than 2 staff - max 5 beds.
2-3 staff - max 7 beds
4 or more - max 9 beds

I might have been lucky but I haven't come across any home outside this guidance. Many have more due to clinical needs.

[kurnal]

You have been lucky Dave. After all the old Green "Draft" guide used to recommend up to 12 beds in a fire compartment which prior to Rosepark, did not need self closers on bedroom doors. Theres lots with 10-12 beds per compartment and only 2 staff on nights but thankfully I never come across any without self closers any more. I do usually recommend additional cross corridor doors but with mixed success.

[colin todd]

Kurnal, more cpd needed again. SHTM84 specified self closers on bedroom doors at the time of rosepark.

[kurnal]

Colin once again you are so desperate to jump down my throat and criticise me that you dont take time to read my post. I was referring to the green draft guide.