Fire Door Hinges

[Geoff]

Hi folks,

Has anyone come across the product in the link below before?

http://www.moderndoorclosers.co.uk/fire-door-hinge-closers.html

A number of our surveyors are wanting to specify it for fitting on flat entrance doors as it overxomes a problem that some older people have in opening their front doors, when they are fitted with self-closing devices.

If you have used it anywhere I'd really appreciate knowing if you felt it was effective.

Regards,

Geoff

[nearlythere]

I'm sure you are aware Geoff they do not comply with BS EN 1154 - Door Closers. Their only claim is that it complies with BS476 Part 22 in that it withstood fire for an hour not that it acted as a BS EN 1154 device with regards to self closing.

[John Webb]

Interesting item - I'm a bit concerned that they operate from mobile phones and don't give a postal address, however..... But I may be doing them an injustice?

[wee brian]

The EC flag/logo is a bit suspect too - are they just confirming that they live somewhere in Europe?

Has anybody seen these things in action?

[nearlythere]

There is nowhere on the site that they claim it is suitable for a SC fire door which is fine. But the picture of the doors in the Features and Benefits page seem to have what look like Fire Door keep Closed signs. Perhaps they are acceptable elsewhere in the world?

[nearlythere]

In the home page it is presented as an alternative to an overhead self closing device but no mention of fire doors that I can see.

So far buyer beware.

[Davo]

Geoff

why would you want a closer on the front door? not sure of the context.

what about the latest Perko fittings?

davo

[Geoff]

Apologies I should have said that the doors are flat entrance doors in retirement and extra care schemes. The issue is that many residents struggle with any form of resistance provided by door closures. We also use free swing devices as well but the same problem occurs when they activate, some can't open the door.

So the surveyors are always looking for an alternative!

This looks to be a good solution but like others have mentioned they are lacking in a bit of provenance and that is why I consulted you wize chaps!

[Tadees]

I'm sure you are aware Geoff they do not comply with BS EN 1154 - Door Closers. Their only claim is that it complies with BS476 Part 22 in that it withstood fire for an hour not that it acted as a BS EN 1154 device with regards to self closing.

What's so special about a BS EN 1154 closer that can't be achieved by a BS476 Part 22 compliant closer?  If it can withstand fire and it shuts the door in to its rebate from any angle, what's the problem?  Not trying to be funny.  Just a genuine question.

[Messy]

Interesting item - I'm a bit concerned that they operate from mobile phones and don't give a postal address, however..... But I may be doing them an injustice?

The registered address of Modern Door Closers is: 9 Wick Close, Bognor Regis PO22 8QE (a small cul-de-sac of small bungalows)

The same address as Rye International Corporation (who are listed as a transport & haulage company)

Neither have a website

(A West Sussex Arthur Daley perhaps??)

[Tom Sutton]

What's so special about a BS EN 1154 closer that can't be achieved by a BS476 Part 22 compliant closer?  If it can withstand fire and it shuts the door in to its rebate from any angle, what's the problem?  Not trying to be funny.  Just a genuine question.

Because the standard for self closers is BS EN 1154 and it should should be also meet BS EN 1935 for hinges but BS 476 pt 22 is irrelevant, unless the method of installation may affect the fire resistance of the fire door.

If you only wish to close the door why not use a single chain perko but I would not recommend it for fire doors.

[AnthonyB]

I remember reading in some old guidance that only double chain perkos were suitable for fire doors and back in 1993 (or even 1986, but I don't have a first edition) the Guild of Architectural Ironmongers guide to ironmongery on timber fire doors cautioned against the use of Concealed Non Check Jamb Morticed Door closers (the generic name for Perkos!)

The use of a spring hinge as part of the device in the link would have precluded from use under the old '93 guidance as well

[Tom Sutton]

There is also no indication that they are CE marked and if they are who did the assessment?

[wee brian]

There's a BBA Logo. The BBA certificate (if it exists) will (should) list all that's been tested/certified etc.

[Tom Sutton]

WB I have tried to find it on their site, but it is a nightmare the system they use is crap.