Communal Fire Alarm Systems in Conversions

[PGtips]

Hi Golden - thanks for taking the time to come back on this, the property is in London, so if you know anyone local?

There are two staircases, one is "protected" by really bad fire doors, the other is the main accommodation stair which is only protected (again by bad fire doors) on a couple of levels, most floors are open on that side of the building so you come out of your flat doors and there is the lift and the stairs.

Escape is possible in either direction from the vast majority of the flats, as you can go round the whole triangle on each level accessing either staircase. As you go higher up the building though there are some flats that are in dead end conditions so anyone coming out of these can only go in one direction past, maybe one or two flats, before they reach that same route from which escape is possible in both directions.

Not sure what deck access is, but the building is built, kind of like a triangle, around a central, open core. The flats (with their kitchen windows and dodgy doors) open out onto these corridors. The opposite side of each corridor has windows all round, which look into this open core. (Think of a sausage bent into a triangle and you have the image!) Just to add to the fun, there are several shops and restaurants beneath, their skylight roofs are level with floor one of the property and fill this inner core. From the first floor up to the roof in this core is just open space. There are 3 separate extraction systems which lead from the restaurants beneath, are affixed to the brickwork of this inner core and finish are roof level of the residential part (apparently this extraction has caught fire as well in the past).

I too hate the idea of evacuation (most of the residents don't speak English, a lot have medical issues, most are short term rental) and getting the message across will be nigh-on impossible.

Golden, would a fire engineer be able to confirm if a stay put is still safe, I thought a structural engineer was perhaps the way to go? Or maybe I should organise a working party and pay both to come along?! I'm beginning to feel stuck between a rock and a hard place here! 

Need something pretty solid to be able to ignore the insurance company and the "advice" from F&RS and not install.

Thanks in advance for further thoughts and any competent person recommendations.

[Golden]

Deck access is used to describe open decks/external balcony to access the flats such as in the picture below. If you have alternate means of escape it is not necessary to upgrade the wall/doors/windows opening onto the deck to a fire resisting standard. Where escape is possible only in a single direction upgrade to 1.1 m only.

I've sent you a message too.

[kurnal]

I agree with Golden, it is much better to resolve the weaknesses that prevent stay put being applied than to paper over the cracks with a full alarm and detection system that will create problems for both occupiers and owners alike, though it is a lot less of an issue if there is a concierge - a rare treasure indeed these days! In terms of the alarm spec I would agree with you that if a full evacuation strategy really is the only possibility then it is essential to raise the alarm before the fire and smoke penetrate to affect the escape routes. In these cases L4 is unlikely to be sufficient. As for fire risk in escape routes with a concierge on site there can surely be no excuse?

[PGtips]

Hi all thanks again, I get what you mean re deck access now Golden, sadly all the flats lead onto an enclosed corridor, albeit one with lots of windows. Maybe that's the way forward, if I break all the windows on the opposite side of the corridors, I get deck access then don't have to worry about the doors or kitchen windows!

Obviously I need to dig a lot deeper on the one, and def need a fire engineer to give expert view on the building, but thanks to everybody who's given a view based on their experience - that, as always is so helpful and much more useful I feel than some of the guidance out there.

Shame that asbestos stuff is banned, asbestos suits all round could have been an answer!

Thanks for message Golden - I'll be in touch.