Common Areas of Flat Fire Scotland Act

[William 29]

Not sure if this has been answered before? Does anyone know the reasoning as to why fire risk assessments of the common areas of flats was not included in the Fire Scotland Act but was included in the RRFSO 2005?

Just thinking of all the expense spent on FRAs and the resulting actions, strips and seals, new fire doors etc in England and Wales.

[nearlythere]

Not sure if this has been answered before? Does anyone know the reasoning as to why fire risk assessments of the common areas of flats was not included in the Fire Scotland Act but was included in the RRFSO 2005?

Just thinking of all the expense spent on FRAs and the resulting actions, strips and seals, new fire doors etc in England and Wales.

Same in Northern Ireland William.

[colin todd]

well, you could believe what (quite incredibly) the fire service college in england told the NIFRS, namely that it was a misprint in the scottish legislation, but the truth is much less bizarre.

[kurnal]

The Scottish approach is cheaper all round?

[colin todd]

No, Big Al.  Guess again.

[nearlythere]

The cheaper approach is Scottish all around.

By the way Dot I am in the Land of the Midge in a couple of weeks. Which part will you be in so you can buy me lots of free drams?

[kurnal]

he will be in the Surrey area of Scotland

[kurnal]

If I recall its down to the different definitions of domestic premises within the housing legislation of each country.

[wee brian]

close - its the Health and Safety at work Act that's the issue.

this is where the definition of domestic premises comes from.

[nearlythere]

close - its the Health and Safety at work Act that's the issue.

this is where the definition of domestic premises comes from.

Not doubting your comment WB, maybe just a wee bit,  but why would a definition for a domestic premises come under workplace legislation?

If one looks through this one can pick out where there is mention that shared facilities do not have to be part of a dwelling. Thats what I read anyway.

  22. In Westminster City Council v Clarke [1992] 2 AC 288 Lord Templeman observed, at pp 298H-299A:

"Under the Rent Acts, in order to create a letting of part of a house as a separate dwelling there must be an agreement by which the occupier has exclusive possession of essential living rooms of a separate dwelling house. Essential living rooms provide the necessary facilities for living, sleeping and cooking. Thus a bed-sitting room with cooking facilities may be a separate dwelling house even though bathroom and lavatory facilities might be elsewhere and shared with other people: see Neale v Del Soto [1945] KB 144; Cole v Harris [1945] KB 474 and Goodrich v Paisner [1957] AC 65, 79"

[nearlythere]

Oops. Forgot this.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200102/ldjudgmt/jd011011/uratem-1.htm

[Tom Sutton]

Wee Brian says it’s the Health and Safety at work Act which states,

53. General interpretation of Part I.

“domestic premises” means premises occupied as a private dwelling (including any garden, yard, garage, outhouse or other appurtenance of such premises which is not used in common by the occupants of more than one such dwelling), and “non-domestic premises” shall be construed accordingly;

It applies to E, W, S, NI so why so why is the Scottish interpretation different in their act?

[kurnal]

We have discussed this before


http://fire.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2392.0

[nearlythere]

Wee Brian says it’s the Health and Safety at work Act which states,

53. General interpretation of Part I.

“domestic premises” means premises occupied as a private dwelling (including any garden, yard, garage, outhouse or other appurtenance of such premises which is not used in common by the occupants of more than one such dwelling), and “non-domestic premises” shall be construed accordingly;

It applies to E, W, S, NI so why so why is the Scottish interpretation different in their act?

Never doubted WB for a moment.

This is NI legislation.

Meaning of “relevant premises”

50.  (1)  In this Part, “relevant premises” means any premises other than–

(a)domestic premises;

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(6) For the purposes of paragraph (1)–

“domestic premises” means premises occupied as a private dwelling (including a stair, passage, garden, yard, garage, outhouse or other appurtenance of such premises which is used in common by the occupants of more than one such dwelling), but does not include a house in multiple occupation;
“mine” has the same meaning as in the Mines Act (Northern Ireland) 1969 (c. 6), but does not include any building on the surface at a mine;
“normal ship-board activities” include the repair of a ship, save repair when carried out in dry dock;
“ship” includes every description of vessel used in navigation.

This still a requirement in the legislation to maintain measures provided for the protection of firefighters in common areas.

[colin todd]

Nearly/Big Al, that was the point of the question in the first place.  Willie is a pretty switched on dude, and he KNOWS that, by virtue of the definition of domestic premises, Scotland and NI have exlcuded the common parts of blocks of flats (very sensibly), while the DCLG have created havoc in England by including them. Willie was merely asking why. In the case of Scotland, it was deliberate and well thought out. (You wouldn't expect any less from the land of Talisker).  In the case of NI, they copied the Scottish legislation more or less verbatim, so excluded the common parts of blocks of flats. In the case of England, it is a case of Big Al forgive them for they know not what they do.