Flat front door glazing

[AJAY]

Morning all,

I have recently visited a converted block of flats which is a listed building.

It appears that the flat front doors have the original stained glass in the door panels and also above the doors. This unfortunately is not fire resisting enough to protect the means of escape corridors/stairwell as their is no lobby and the flats open directly on to the corridors.

What would be an acceptable solution to upgrading the glazing?
Is there anything on the market like a coating?
Would the doors need fully upgrading or the glazed bits boarding over?

There is a automatic fire alarm system fitted - call points & AFD to L2.   

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

[nearlythere]

Is there room in the frames to double up the existing glass with georgian wire or copper strip or insulated if you prefer?

[AJAY]

Hi Nearlythere,

Difficult to say, as the glazing appears to be in bevelled frames. Not sure if there would be enough space to fit GW panels

[AnthonyB]

The category of fire alarm is suggestive of someone's previous solution to this issue being to move to full evacuate rather than stay put....

[Auntie LIn]

You might consider applying an overlay of gwpp on the internal face.   The detailing would need careful consideration and it wouldn't be the prettiest solution but it might do the job.

[Davo]

Aunty Lin is spot on, we did this at my old HQ back in the eighties, all interested parties found acceptable as you could still see the stained glass

davo

[Fishy]

If you put non-insulating F/R glass on the fire risk face, then it'll overheat and fail early (the non-F/R glass insulates it).   I think you might find that the recommended/tested upgrading detail for glazing is to put the F/R glazing system on the non-risk face (counter-intuitive perhaps but that's what my experience has revealed).  Alternatively you can use an EI glass on the risk face, if there's room to fit it.

[kurnal]

Crikey Fishy I would never have expected that! Was your experience of the performance of non insulating glass founded in testing  or experience of observing real fires?

[Fishy]

Testing and research.  The non-fr glass doesn't allow the FR glass to lose heat like it is designed to, so it (and its glazing system) can overheat.  GWPP is particularly prone to early failure if you insulate it.  Also, if the F/R glass is on the risk face and the secondary glazing detail uses timber between the panes then it cooks the timber which can ignite, negating the protection that the f/r glass provides.  Not an issue for the EI insulating glasses, but they are much thicker, of course.

[nearlythere]

Testing and research.  GWPP is particularly prone to early failure if you insulate it.  Also, if the F/R glass is on the risk face and the secondary glazing detail uses timber between the panes then it can ignite, negating the protection that the f/r glass provides.  Not an issue for the EI insulating glasses, but they are much thicker, of course.

Very interesting.

[Daffodil]

I am told that there is a product caled XYZ from envirograf that is a laquer and a film that can upgrade glass.  I have never seen it applied so I do not know how good it is and if the frames of the exising windows would suffice.

[Auntie LIn]

Upgrade it from what to what?   Has it been tested in the way in which it is proposed to be used?   Has the correct test procedure been used?   All questions that you should want answered about any material which claims to upgrade anything.

[colin todd]

You are becoming old and cynical Lin. Soon you will be smelling Dave's breath when he says he was late because he went to visit an ill relative.

Like Ajay, I too recently visited a block of flats that was a conversion. I took afternoon tea with my elderly aunt.  Then I went home.

[Firescot]

Could you not fit an inner fire resistant lobby and leave the original doors the way they are?