Stairway enclosures without detection

[nearlythere]

What do we think of this folks.

10 storey building with two stairway enclosures. On has final exit and the other (main stairway) exit via a lift lobby and reception.
Single point of access to each stairway at each level.

No service shafts in either stairway.

Main Stairway - Completely sterile and no detection within stairway but detection in adjacent room which is lift lobby at all levels.
Alternative Stairway - Also sterile with no detection in enclosure but has protected lobby approach on each level from open plan office area containing detection.

So I'm thinking - what's the problem?

[Davo]

Nearlythere

Liklihood of remaining sterile? How is the security? Arson?

davo

[nearlythere]

Nearlythere

Liklihood of remaining sterile? How is the security? Arson?

davo

Very likely to remain sterile & arson? How do you deal with a single stairway condition?

Security staff at main entrance. Rear escape stairway secure from outside access.

[Mr. P]

Suitable/reasonable control/management, 2 way escape. Are stairs sized for number of occupants?

[nearlythere]

So I'm thinking - what's the problem?

Dunno.  What is it?

That what I'm asking? Lots of opinions would make good chat. Is that not one of the points of the forum? Debate?

[kurnal]

What is the building used for NT? Single or multi occ?

[nearlythere]

What is the building used for NT? Single or multi occ?

Single.

[kurnal]

What's it used for NT? Offices? Hotel? Flats? Hospital? Firework factory?

[Clevelandfire 3]

No problem to me. Theres 2 staircases. We always say you will only have one fire. people can turn their back and go the other way. Doesn't matter if both staircases become poorly managed so long as theyre both separated. 

[nearlythere]

What's it used for NT? Offices? Hotel? Flats? Hospital? Firework factory?

Office.

[kurnal]

Presumably at least one of the staircases is a firefighting shaft with a firefighting lobby due to the height of the building........ I  suggest that if building it today you would follow bs5839 and incorporate detection in accordance with the Relevant  L category, but if encountering it on an FRA as an existing building it might be difficult to justify the cost / benefit of a retro fit of detection especially where the staircase(s) are firefighting stairs with firefighting lobbies in a single occupier (or well managed multi occ ) building.

[colin todd]

Why would you need afd in an office building.

[Davo]

How long have you got...........

davo

[colin todd]

I have infinite patience. It comes from dealing with the English FRS.

[Wiz]

Why would you need afd in an office building.

just to quote a few from Table A.1 of BS5839-1 which could apply to office buildings:

a) Buildings in which other fire precautions, such as means of escape, depart from recognized guidance.

b) Buildings with "inner rooms", from which escape is possible only passing through another ("access") room, where there is inadequate vision between the inner room and the access room.

c) Buildings in which automatic fire detection is required to operate other fire protection systems (e.g. magnetic door holders)

d) Situations in which fire could readily spread from an unoccupied area and prejudice means of escape from occupied areas.

e) Any building in which automatic detection is provided as a requirement of a property insurers or to attract an insurance premium discount.

I'm sure there must be other reasons which could apply.

I haven't got a clue who was involved in creating BS5839-1, but I imagine they would know what they are doing. They are my heroes and I look up to them!