Fire door requirement on a 2 storey HMO

[GLSafety]

I wonder if you could help me?

Just carried out a fire risk assessment on a 2 storey HMO, only to find out there were no fire doors on any of the bedrooms, living room and kitchen. On questioning this, the landlord stated that from the visit of the HMO officer from the local authority said that they are not needed as there are fire escape windows. The local authority is Dudley in the West Mids.

I would prefer to have a protected route with fire doors rather than have someone trying to escape through a 1st floor window should there be a fire. What are your thoughts on this?

Put to have no fire door on a kitchen!

[nearlythere]

I wonder if you could help me?

Just carried out a fire risk assessment on a 2 storey HMO, only to find out there were no fire doors on any of the bedrooms, living room and kitchen. On questioning this, the landlord stated that from the visit of the HMO officer from the local authority said that they are not needed as there are fire escape windows. The local authority is Dudley in the West Mids.

I would prefer to have a protected route with fire doors rather than have someone trying to escape through a 1st floor window should there be a fire. What are your thoughts on this?

Put to have no fire door on a kitchen!

One would have to ask the HMO officer what advice he actually gave is. I cant see even a  cowboy assessor giving this advice.

[colin todd]

It would be fine for a 2 storey single family dwelling.  If it is a low risk HMO it would also be fine for Lacors.

[Dinnertime Dave]

One would have to ask the HMO officer what advice he actually gave is. I cant see even a  cowboy assessor giving this advice.

sorry nearlythere, Colin is right. 2 storey HMO allows either a protected route or window escape. Now where do I tie this horse?

[nearlythere]

One would have to ask the HMO officer what advice he actually gave is. I cant see even a  cowboy assessor giving this advice.

sorry nearlythere, Colin is right. 2 storey HMO allows either a protected route or window escape. Now where do I tie this horse?

We wouldnt put up with that in ni dont think.

[nearlythere]

One would have to ask the HMO officer what advice he actually gave is. I cant see even a  cowboy assessor giving this advice.

sorry nearlythere, Colin is right. 2 storey HMO allows either a protected route or window escape. Now where do I tie this horse?

We wouldnt put up with that in ni dont think.

Are we tslking about a window escape from every room?

[nearlythere]

And to think of the trouble we are having over here getting new "Grand Designs" open aspect type two storey dwellings through BC with one reading that the Technical Booklet to the B Regs requires that, in order to have open aspect main stairway from first floor discharging into very open aspect ground floor, in addition to the openable window from every room, an alternative protected stairway should be provided from the first floor.

[colin todd]

You can if your stairway discharges on the lower floor within 3m of a door, Almost.

[colin todd]

Suppers, I agree with your agreement with me, but I didn't understand the bit about the horse.

[Dinnertime Dave]

Suppers, I agree with your agreement with me, but I didn't understand the bit about the horse.

I think Nearlythere is referring to us as cowboy risk assessors, clearly I'm not because I enforce. Well until the end of March anyway.

[nearlythere]

You can if your stairway discharges on the lower floor within 3m of a door, Almost.

Everybody knows that Dot except BC types. And thats the problem.
It is a simple case that they fail to read their own guidance properly because of the punctuation.

[colin todd]

Forgive them, Almost, as they do not have a Scottish education.

[nearlythere]

Forgive them, Almost, as they do not have a Scottish education.

Is your punctuation correct Dot? Just asking mind.

[lyledunn]

GLS, we have in NI a document that gives guidance on such matters. Unfortunately it is dated and seems to be cherry-picked by inspecting officers. Reference to it shows that your situation would be category B and providing each storey has at least 1 escape window, no storey is over 4.5m and there are no more than 6 non-vulnerable adults, then fire doors are not required.

[nearlythere]

That to me creates an issue Lyle. We are leaving the landlord to determine the vulnerability of the residents as and when occupancys change. It requires landlords and probably managing agents to carry out an assessment of every occupant to determine their level of vulnerability to ensure that the premises fire safety measures are appropriate.
Do we think that is something that would or even could be done?
The other issue is determining the level of risk associated with a particular category of people. Can we always class students e.g. as high risk because of what we think they might get up to?