Fire dection connected to security alarm panel

[Fire Monkey]

Hello,

I have come across (during a FRA) a place of assembly building what has a security alarm system but where some smoke detection heads have been attached to it and activations of these heads are visable on the security alarm panal display. This means there is no seperate control and indicating equipment for the fire alarm. There is no information available as to why these systems have been combined or when.

I have a number of questions :

1). Is the combining of a fire alarm system and a security alarm system legal? Yes I can see that the system explained woud not comply with BS7273 but does this mean the system cannot be used?
2). What lengh of batter back up would you need for the fire alarm system in this case?
3). Is there a specific standard of competance techinician must have to service smoke detection systems (one wonders is a security alarm technician would have been trained appropriatly and even have the tools required).

Any thoughts would be appricated.

[kurnal]

Many security alarms have inputs for smoke detectors, usually these systems are intended for property protection linked to a call centre. They do not usually meet the criteria for life safety fire alarms , some may be equivalent to a 5839 part 6 grade d system.

[John Webb]

A small local museum I'm involved with has just had a new security system installed, and which includes smoke detectors monitored remotely principally as property protection. But we've retained the BS5389 part 6 detectors installed when the building was restored 8 years ago to ensure that we also comply with the RR(FS)O requirements and keep them under our own control. The Security alarm sounder is much louder than the detectors and nobody will want to stay in the building anyway if that goes off as well as the BS system!

[colin todd]

Do Part 6, detectors meet Article 13 of the FSO, Johnnie?

[John Webb]

Do Part 6, detectors meet Article 13 of the FSO, Johnnie?

In my opinion they certainly comply, taking into account Article 13 paragraph 2 concerning the size of the building and numbers likely to be present......

[AnthonyB]

I can see their merit in situations where you wouldn't normally need a manual electrical system as the baseline, such as the L5 situation illustrated in the DCLG introductory guide to the FSO where they show a small two room lock up where human senses and a shout would  normally do, but there is an inner room situation without a vision panel. A grade F smoke alarm to the access room may then be proportionate to the risk, but you also see them used where they are trying to punch above their weight.

[colin todd]

Grade F was breach the H&S (SS and S) Regs.  And you cant call up Part 6 for a workplace, cos Part 6 excludes workplaces from its scope.

[AnthonyB]

You are quite right, it should be a grade D.

Whilst you are right that pt 6 excludes commercial use, the DCLG guidance nicely glosses over that....

And whilst I agree that in most cases if you need FD&A it should be a part 1, it would seem a bit OTT for the example in the introductory guide and whilst risk assessment shouldn't be used to throw all established practice out of the window it would surely be appropriate in the specific example.