Author Topic: Fire Safety In Hospitals  (Read 17055 times)

Offline Mike Buckley

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The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Offline Mike Buckley

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The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Offline K Lard

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2015, 05:02:59 PM »
Further to above

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/14m-to-fix-cumbria-hospital-fire-safety-failings-1.1228640

Mr Burn? Joking aside, whoever gave a completion certificate for the works (If in fact that did happen) should be taken to task. I have seen many completed works signed off which are of a poor standard over the years.

Offline kurnal

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2015, 05:55:12 PM »
I too have lost count of the number of new buildings I have encountered with identical problems. it cuts across all sectors but is at its worst in student accommodation. Also rife in schools, Residential buildings, warehouses, offices. Often other aspects of the fire design are  also watered down in "compensation" for so called  additional precautions when these too are very compromised.  The building industry is in a dreadful state, usually CDM is just lipservice. The demise of the co-ordination that used to be delivered through  a clerk of works was one of the major causes. Now all you have is a huge heap of individual contractors all submitting loads of paperwork such as methods statements and risk assessments to the Principal Contractor but  nobody making sure that they work in a co-ordinated way, too good standards, as per design and above all that they are not undoing each others work as they blunder through.

Offline AnthonyB

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2015, 10:04:24 PM »
I have to agree, a client had me do their FRA on a new sports hall early before handover due to concerns and despite the actual construction being 'complete' there were:

- unsealed penetrations
- inappropriate use of expanding foam
- use of non fire resistant glazing to protected route and compartment wall
- broken sections of batt left in situ instead of replacing
- missing exit boxes
- batt not secured in place with mastic
- Panic Doors in main hall no longer panic proof due to being recessed instead of flush and this having massive chunks of wood stuck on the front (to bounce balls) also adding excessive weight to the doors and having lovely sharp angled corners presenting a H&S risk if anyone ran into them along the wall line during sports (the doors need to be panic proof as the main hall will also be used as a place of assembly with large numbers in)
Anthony Buck
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Offline jayjay

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2015, 11:26:10 PM »
I have also assessed a number of PFI buildings and have not yet found one that was completed without some significant fire safety ommisions.

I have never liked the PFI process it seemed to me that they built them as cheaply as possible and then charged enormous sums to look after them.

In one case in a secondary school almost 100 poor quality FR doors had to be replaced within two years, another example was in a university where 30min FR doors were fitted where 60 min was specified and required.

Other examples
Armoured glass instead of FR Glazing.

Inadaquate exit widths

No fire separation to external exit stairs

I was once told to leave a PFI school I was inspecting prior to completion. The developer did not like that I had identified faults and ommisions on parts supposed to be completed. No help from building control or independent inspectors.

The flack I got when highlighting the ommissions was unbelievable and I will be pleased to never assess a PFI again.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2015, 04:27:52 PM »
I have also assessed a number of PFI buildings and have not yet found one that was completed without some significant fire safety ommisions.

I have never liked the PFI process it seemed to me that they built them as cheaply as possible and then charged enormous sums to look after them.

In one case in a secondary school almost 100 poor quality FR doors had to be replaced within two years, another example was in a university where 30min FR doors were fitted where 60 min was specified and required.

Other examples
Armoured glass instead of FR Glazing.

Inadaquate exit widths

No fire separation to external exit stairs

I was once told to leave a PFI school I was inspecting prior to completion. The developer did not like that I had identified faults and ommisions on parts supposed to be completed. No help from building control or independent inspectors.

The flack I got when highlighting the ommissions was unbelievable and I will be pleased to never assess a PFI again.

Absolutely can understand your situ JJ. I'm finding loads of major issues but in young office blocks. What the heck is going on? Has Building Control been disbanded? Don't they know what they are doing?
The sooner they give Fire Safety in new builds to F&RS the better and safer for everyone. 
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Mike Buckley

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2015, 05:10:40 PM »
Building Control still exists, but it seems a lot of this work is being done by Approved Inspectors who may or may not visit and also are engaged by the construction company. Also their knowledge and experience of Fire is frequently limited to ADB.

Also bearing in mind Eric Pickles response to the Coroner's letter for Lakanal House, the Westminster Bubble doesn't care either, until we get a real f*** up and the brown smelly stuff hits the fan.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Offline Golden

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2015, 05:18:50 PM »
I think its the same everywhere - seems that AIs are in the pockets of the developer and just want to make easy money by approving any design that comes their way and LABC have the DILLIGAS sign hanging over the door.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 08:59:34 PM »
Well the client is happy that a completion cert is a cover all comfort letter and i thougjt it cruel to draw a comparison with its similar or maybe lesser cert of achivement to a crackerjack pencil. But shes v happy and i can include her aceptance in the assessment, which wont be read anyway, amd make sure i wont join her in the bad person witness box.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2015, 09:25:14 PM »
Well the client is happy that a completion cert is a cover all comfort letter and i thougjt it cruel to draw a comparison with its similar or maybe lesser cert of achivement to a crackerjack pencil. But shes v happy and i can include her aceptance in the assessment, which wont be read anyway, amd make sure i wont join her in the bad person witness box.

Sorry about my rant. Crackerjack pencils have great value and merit of achievement unlike BC certs which will soon be free in breakfast cereal packs i bet.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Dinnertime Dave

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2015, 10:36:03 PM »
"DILLIGAS" ? I bet it's obvious when you tell me.

Offline AnthonyB

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2015, 10:55:02 PM »
According to Urban Dictionary:

dilligas
an amusing acronym disguised as a silly word. Dilligas stands for "do I look like I give a s**t?" You can say it to your parents, your kid sister, your maiden aunt, really anyone who is annoying you, but whom you do not want to anger.
Anthony Buck
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Offline Dinnertime Dave

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2015, 11:22:50 PM »
"DILLIGAS" ? I bet it's obvious when you tell me.

Yes it was. Thank you 

Offline Golden

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Re: Fire Safety In Hospitals
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2015, 09:52:47 AM »
Just got a reply this morning from an AI as I asked if he was happy to accept a 35m dead end across the atrium in a three storey school based on a fire strategy that had absolutely no detail but mentions that there is an option to install a natural ventilation system. The answer he gave was that the strategy was "over and above his knowledge of fire engineering" but that he found "no reason not to accept the fire strategy".

I'm going to join the other mobs being discussed in the other thread and just get a tick box report system, a bag full of 'fire door keep shut' stickers and the number of a disreputable fire alarm company who will pay me 20% commission for recommending full FDA in 3 storey blocks of PB flats when I've already charged them ?150 for 10 minutes work. I've had enough of trying to be professional as it just gives me stress.