Two Voice Alarm Messages in the Same Space??????

[Messy]

A new large office block with large multi storey atrium and a voice alarm system (supporting a phased evac plan) has been signed off by the fire alarm installers despite what I see is an obvious anomaly.

In certain situations, the ground floor of the premises (including those occupying the atrium space) and receive a 'stay where you are' message, whilst those on the top floor(s) may get a 'get the hell out of there' instruction. So far so good.

However the glass roof of the atrium has a large internal window cleaning/maintenance platform that moves across the underside of the glass, so within the atrium space. Access to the platform (when it's parked) is via the top floor.

The voice alarm system sees the platform as being on the top floor zone, so has been configured to provide the 'get the hell out of here' message to any operators of the platform, but a 'stay where you are'  to those in the same atrium space below. Unsurprisingly, those working on the ground floor get a loud 'stay where you are' message, and in the gaps between the message they hear a quieter (but very audible) 'evacuate' message from the mobile platform space above. The use of the atrium space means that people with no knowledge of the evacuation plan may be present

IMHO this is situation is obviously unacceptable and could be easily and cheaply addressed by replacing the voice alarm speakers on the platform with a buzzer & beacon arrangement with suitable signage informing when the buzzer or beacon operate, persons should make their way to the ground floor.

I am having difficulty persuading a RP that their current arrangements are unsuitable as they argue that they've had a sign off from the fire alarm contractors. It's frustrating as the changes would cost pennies compared the the overall costs of the project!

I'd appreciate your views and suggestions. It might have to be that I record the situation in their FRA and walk away, but I would not feel comfortable doing so unless I had exhausted all possible avenues to get the message thru to the RP

[kurnal]

I think you are right messy. Yours is most likely the cheapest and most robust solution, alternatives may include pagers linked to the alarm (circa ?2k) or radios linked to the FM office administered by the person managing the permit work system.

Actually though your solution may very likely be a no cost option as generally the sounders can be configured from the panel and so could be given a tone rather than a voice message.

[Fishy]

This might be regarded as a non-compliance with Clause 14.2 b) of BS 5839-1?

"14.2 Recommendations...
...b) The extent of any overlap of signals between alarm zones should not be
sufficient to result in confusion of occupants in any area of the building...".

Depends whether you regard the platform as being in the same zone as the atrium base, of course!

[wee brian]

Maybe the simplest option is a sign and maybe some training for the operatives to tell them to leave the platform if either alarm sounds.

[Messy]

I agree Fishy about clause 14, as I think this is exactly what is happening here

Wee Brian ; As far as being in the same zone, BS5838-1 says about zones being separated by FR construction. A gap of 30m of fresh(ish) air between zones here hardly constitutes FR construction

I think I will go for a disconnection of the upper VAS speakers, replacement buzzers/beacons, signage and training. I will drop the buzzers and beacons if negotiating gets tough!!

Many thanks to all as I work pretty much in isolation, so its useful to get other views sometimes

[colin todd]

Well, Davey Lad, you know what they say, a friend in need is......................... a bloody nuisance.  Do you think you have been isolated because you once worked for the dreaded LFB?

[wee brian]

Sounds like a good plan to me Messy

[Messy]

Well, Davey Lad, you know what they say, a friend in need is......................... a bloody nuisance.  Do you think you have been isolated because you once worked for the dreaded LFB?

You might be right Colin as its a tough part of my life that I rarely admit to, but it could be worse, I could be Scottish  

[Phoenix]

If the RP cannot see a problem with the current set up whilst you can, I would recommend that they do a drill.  They should do them every 6 months or so anyway so it shouldn't be a hardship.  Bring the next one forward if need be.  They don't even have to run through all the phases, just do the first two or three phases. 

Do the drill and see what happens.  Invite people from the atrium to the debrief and see what they report.  Ask if they were confused.  Until you do this the problem will remain a 'perceived problem'.  It is easier to find an effective resolution if the problem has known parameters rather than perceived ones, particular if your perception of the problem is different from the RP's perception.

On the other hand, that seems like  a lot of trouble, the cheap option might be more cost effective.