EN54-23 VADs

[David Rooney]

Sorry but I'm confusing myself reading too many guidance docs and the red book ....

I understand that "standard beacons" now need to be VADs (aka EN54-23 approved) where they are the primary source of warning for the hearing impaired meaning that even if there is a sounder installed in a WC or bedroom under Pt M we would still need to install a VAD in these spaces.

But the red book (LPCB guide) also mentions "certain areas where people are likely to be on their own"

So are we saying that in a typical office environment VADs should be installed throughout if there is a possibility a lone cleaner may be hard of hearing - assuming no other provisions are made such as a pager.

How far would you go?

[kurnal]

Methinks you worry too much. The Fire Safety Order places precedence on the Fire Risk Assessment for precisely this reason to avoid wholesale and unnecessary upgrades as standards change. For new installs and for the associated TPC purposes you will need to have regard to the new standards but in the UK the  lone cleaner scenario you describe would be dealt with specifically by the fire risk assessment and fire emergency plan based on the needs of the case. In fact lone cleaners often face far higher risks in the real world, in particular they are often alone with locked exits and extended travel distances as a consequence.

[David Rooney]

That's all very sensible!!

Thank you 

We normally stipulate we aren't going to install VADs except in WCs as per Part M unless the client identifies a need for beacons in other areas.

But somehow it still seems to come back to us to tell the client what he needs!

[Dinnertime Dave]

That's all very sensible!!

Thank you 

We normally stipulate we aren't going to install VADs except in WCs as per Part M unless the client identifies a need for beacons in other areas.

But somehow it still seems to come back to us to tell the client what he needs!

Do people who are hearing impaired use disabled toilets? Probably not.

[AnthonyB]

Do people who are hearing impaired use disabled toilets? Probably not.

Which is a point I always raise - if you need a VAD in a disabled loo then you need one in the normal ones as well - many buildings toilets aren't busy and often you only see one person go in & out at a time, they aren't all like public toilets in a station or service area.

[Fishy]

Do people who are hearing impaired use disabled toilets? Probably not.

Absolutely agree - it's a nonsense.  I lived with a deaf woman for many years & I can confirm that she had no inclination whatsoever to use a disabled loo - she'd use any old toilet.  That would usually include the men's, if the queue for the ladies was too long...

She could never be bothered to use the 'T' loop setting on her hearing aids either, no matter how many signs there were encouraging her to do so, so I always scoff at people who assume that this is a reliable means of transmitting warnings to the hearing impaired...

[David Rooney]

That's all very sensible!!

Thank you  

We normally stipulate we aren't going to install VADs except in WCs as per Part M unless the client identifies a need for beacons in other areas.

But somehow it still seems to come back to us to tell the client what he needs!

Do people who are hearing impaired use disabled toilets? Probably not.

I said WCs ...implying all WCs..... not designated disabled WCs......  

And interesting that we take this recommendation from 5.4(g) of Pt M which actually says "any fire alarm emits an audible and visual signal" not that an audible / visual signal should be provided within a WC, and we apply this to all WCs .... but the same clause also makes recommendation for emergency assistance alarms but we do only apply this to designated disabled WCs?