Folding acoustic screen partition

[lingmoor]

Hi

I have just seen plans that have been submitted to planning (without the Fire Safety Strategy) for the underside side of a spectator stand.
It is proposed to use this as a bar on match days and for offices and other facilities on other days.

This under the stand space is approx 70 metres long and about 9 metres wide. There are double doors to outside in the middle and double doors either end leading to 3 metre long corridors past the WC's and into the ground.

The proposal during non-match days is to partition this space with two folding acoustic screens to one side of the central double doors to use as and when needed for offices. (thereby splitting the whole length into three)

This would leave the centre 'room' with no doors out, and they would have to open the screen to escape, and the right hand 'room' with one exit into the ground or through the screen the other way.  I have heard say also that they may even have three seperate bars for matchdays in the future.

My question, after that pretty long winded description, is are folding partition screen ok for means of escape?

Thanks

[Golden]

Hi Lingmoor - in a word .. no! You could be talking a lot of people using these spaces and from what you describe none of the MoE is acceptable as each space will accommodate many more than 60 persons.

[Davo]

Hi Lingmoor

Some info missing but Golden is right.
Not in any circumstances, sorry!

davo

[lingmoor]

Thank you for your replies, appreciated.

The floor space in the bar when divided up is 95sqm (two exits...all doors open outward in there.) ...and  65sqm and 75 sqm (not including corridor, the bar itself or WC's)  so given 1sqm each person your only talking 60 anyway ,...but knowing these places they'll try and squeeze more in!
So not for offices either?

What info should I have added Davo, Cheers

PS I'm not in any way doing any work on it...I've (very) long since retired

blimey is that the time!

[Golden]

Hi Lingmoor, I'd worked on 70x9 being 630m2 which even when divided into 3 would accommodate many more than the numbers you're now proposing as the floor space factor can be as low as 0.3m2 per person; if you're indicating that the floor spaces are a lot less then there may be a possibility. There would need to be an minimum of two exits if you're accommodating more than 60 and the travel distance/direction/protection to a final exit would also have to be considered. Are they proposing tables and chairs in the bar area or merely standing?

[lingmoor]

Hi Golden

I found this while perusing the Planning Public Access site the other night...maybe I got the figures wrong, I need to go to specsavers soon! I'm not sure if it's sitting down. but my experience of bars like this under stands, there is one at Rochdale if memory serves, then it is usually standing only, however if they split it into 3 seperate bars then I wouldn't be sure.
They will be used as offices though I believe

http://www.publicaccess.manchester.gov.uk/associateddocs/selecteddoc.aspx?111731-dpp-0001.pdf

[Mike Buckley]

The use of screens like this is fairly common in Hotels where there is a big function room that can be subdivided into smaller function rooms if required. Looking at the plans the whole area appears to have three exits so each of the smaller rooms will have at least one exit.

One of the issues I have found is the signage of the exits on the acoustic screens, I usually recommend flat signs on the screen above the doors although I have seen a sign suspended from the ceiling above a huge empty space when the screen has been retracted into the wall.

[lingmoor]

Hi Mike

the middle room when divided doesn't have a dedicated exit that I can see, just two partitions, unless you count what looks like inward and outward opening doors at the bar end of the partitions, but I would assume that is just the way if folds

Maybe ok for a few in an office type situation, but with well inebriated football fans could be another matter! 

[Davo]

Hi LIngmoor

Are the screens free standing or railed?
Construction of floor and ceiling.
Will the bar be permanent or rigged on the day?

regards davo

[lingmoor]

Hi Davo

I really don't know but if I was a betting man I'd say railed
There is a concrete floor and not sure about ceiling as at the moment it is just the stand above
The bar is to be a permanent fixture

[Mike Buckley]

Hi Lingmoor,

Logic would suggest that is a door in the partition otherwise how would people get in and out of the room.

I would also suggest that the partitions would probably not be used during a football match as the main aim is to get as many people into the bar area as possible and to spread the load over the whole bar. Looking at the plan I would suggest that if the partitions are closed during a match and the only access is through the open flap nest to the bar the end result would be one area of the bar being very crowded and the rest of the bar being virtually deserted. People at the bar would obstruct other people trying to get through the flap to the other areas of the bar. the main aim of the club on match day would be to get as many people served as quickly as possible to maximize takings.

[lingmoor]

Hi Mike

all good points and I think you may be right about the door but it's not clear, getting in and out of the room otherwise would be by folding the door back each time
Although I am nothing to do with this plan, I do go to games and and as its a fan owned clun there are different groups with different ideas. All this season it has just been used as one long  makeshift bar (with no central door) As I said there is talk of having three seperate bars in the future, which is why I asked, as the central room has no additional door (if the folding partition was just that) and one end would have the one exit.

During the day they will be three seperate offices

[Owain]

all good points and I think you may be right about the door but it's not clear, getting in and out of the room otherwise would be by folding the door back each time

My (very limited) experience with such partitions was that it would not slide back if there was any furniture (or people, etc) pressing against the side of the panels preventing the 'concertina' from compressing from ---- to /\/\, or if the partition had any pressure against it preventing it from hanging vertically, and they're rather unwieldy to move at the best of times.