New guidance on fire safety in specialized housing

[colin todd]

I am pleased to announce that CFOA have awarded CS Todd & Associates a contract to draft a new guide, which will be a sister publication to Fire safety in purpose-built blocks of flats, on the subject of fire safety in specialized housing (as defined in for example BS 9991).  At various stages in the contract, we propose to place draft material out there for public consultation.  However, we are open to suggestions, ideas, things that should be included, products to which reference should be made, etc.

Comments can be made to a special email that has been set up for the purpose, namely spechousing@cstodd.co.uk

[kurnal]

This sounds just what the industry needs. I hope the detail and layout will mirror the flats guide where the historic information is particularly useful. Will the scope include core homes, shared houses for less than 6 persons and HTM88?

[colin todd]

It will include supported living but not care homes.

[kurnal]

Just to be clear by core homes I was referring to the small care schemes in which typically 4 persons with learning disabilities share a house, often as leaseholders and receive care from a service provider who organise and administer the whole set up. Sometimes care needs can be profound 24/7 1 to 1 support, in other cases minimal. Fire safety standards tend to mimic domestic, and in some cases where minimal care is offered it could be argued to be wholly domestic. But there needs to be some guidance in my opinion. I believe in NI they call thes fold schemes but happy to be corrected.

[colin todd]

We have discussed the matter of 1-1 24 hour care and this is under consideration

[idlefire]

Just to be clear by core homes I was referring to the small care schemes in which typically 4 persons with learning disabilities share a house, often as leaseholders and receive care from a service provider who organise and administer the whole set up. Sometimes care needs can be profound 24/7 1 to 1 support, in other cases minimal. Fire safety standards tend to mimic domestic, and in some cases where minimal care is offered it could be argued to be wholly domestic. But there needs to be some guidance in my opinion. I believe in NI they call thes fold schemes but happy to be corrected.

I am due to risk assess such a scheme in the very near future, is/are there any currently standards/guidance at all which is/are relevant to them or should I just go with what feels right in the circumstances?

I presume the FSO applies as they are not a single private dwelling by definition?

[JC100]

Ensuring that details on who is responsible for identifying those within dwellings at greater risk from fire is covered e.g. bed bound residents, heavy smokers, hoarders etc. Is this a landlord responsibility to investigate or is it down to the care/support provider to raise concerns? Some of the care/support is either commissioned by local authority or by the resident themselves with the landlord having no input.

Also details on warden call systems (link line etc) and their interaction with fire alarm systems if required would be helpful.

[Dinnertime Dave]

Also details on warden call systems (link line etc) and their interaction with fire alarm systems if required would be helpful.

I think that clarification on this is long overdue.  With the removal of funding many providers are only installing systems on a needs based basis.

Their argument which is justified in my opinion is why provide and maintain a system for somebody who goes out to work 9-5 but chooses to live in a supported living scheme.

[colin todd]

Suppers, you are right and you are wrong.  The connection of a smoke alarm in a dwelling to a telecare provider, is not so much for the protection of the individual but for the protection of others.  But this will be fully addressed in the guidance.

[Dinnertime Dave]

Suppers, you are right and you are wrong.  The connection of a smoke alarm in a dwelling to a telecare provider, is not so much for the protection of the individual but for the protection of others.  But this will be fully addressed in the guidance.

Whilst always happy to listen/read and learn, I would have thought that the smoke (or heat) detector in the hall linked to the main system is there for the protection of others. The Grade D Category LD3 system protects the individual. The linking of this system to a telecare provider is IMO due to vulnerability of the resident, if they aren't vulnerable then don't link it.

I would confirm here that my employer links all of its supported living schemes and pays the bill but others don't, some have passed the charge on, others have risk assessed it out. All will look closely at this area with the squeeze in funding for HA.

[colin todd]

Suppers, you know I like and respect you (primarily because you always agree with me!), but you have this off kilter old fruit, along with many others.  It may be your IMHO, as to why it ever became custom and practice, but trust me Suppers, this is not simply my opinion.  Sadly enough I am old enough to have been around to actually know why the principle was adopted.  Because you are on the side of the angels, Sup, you have special permission to give me a ring anytime and I will explain it all to you.

[kurnal]

Is there no chance of your sharing this nugget with your friends on the forum Colin? I think Dave is right though there may be a number of reasons for using mixed systems, because once a solution is identified then it tends to find other relevant applications across different purpose groups.

 Spent a lot of money (too much) on two books about fire alarm systems  part 1 and part 6 but can't remember seeing any other explanation there.

[colin todd]

Kurnal,  I know it is lazy, but the history got so confused and distorted that it would take ages to type and it is much easier to explain to my good friend Sup by telephone, cos he is on the side of the angels.  I will write it up in the new guide, so that people understand.

[kurnal]

It's a pity you don't feel you can share the background to this with us Colin but not unexpected. However does it really matter- whether it was flats, HMO or sheltered housing, whether the reason was for the life safety of the individual flat resident, safety of persons using the communal areas  or the control and management  of unwanted fire signals. It's an arrangement that works in a number of scenarios including that described by Dave.

[Tom Sutton]

Kurnal I think it is the concept that suppers stated that Colin does not accept "heat detector in hall linked to main system" see http://www.crisis-response.com/forum/index.php?topic=6999.0 check out reply 3. What I find difficult to understand what happens if a fire starts in the common areas?