Distance of Cooking Facitlies from Exit

[GB]

A studio / open plan flat - the statement that cooking facilities should be remote from the exit point.
I have had a search on the forum and other publications with no justification of any distance - can anyone point me to any research or similar data / information on this issue?

[JT]

Subjective one, I've not seen a definition for remote as such. But 1.8m seems to be used commonly.

[col10]

9m is what is shown in the diag 3 in ADB.

[GB]

Yes I have seen 1.8m with it being related to the distance in ADB Diagram 25.

Does the 9m in ADB Diagram 3 relate more to travel distance within an open plan Apt rather than a distance from the cooking facilities?

I have also seen 4.5m being used as in ADB Diagram 14 relating to the distance away from an opening in a floor.

I can't see anything in the NHBC Open Plan Apts document justifying any distance and no other research paper discussing the issue which must be a common topic.

[col10]

Diagram 25 is in an external situation (a vented fire).
9m in Diag 3 is the max allowable travel distance but the diag also shows the arrow head to the 9m dim terminating at the kitchen units.  I would have thought that to achieve a situation where the cooking facilities "do not prejudice the escape route" then the distance needs to be not less than the actual TD.
Diaq 14 is not a cooking risk or a flat. 

[JT]

The situation I have seen had sprinklers, LD1 and calcs to justify the radiated heat allowable at 1.8m.
I would suggest without an engineered solution, a risk assessor should look at the 45 degree rule as a benchmark standard.

[GB]

Thanks Colin, I fully agree that Diagram 25 & Diagram 14 is not fully relevant - only pointing out what I have come across, not what I propose or endorse.

I would suggest that the distance from cooking facilities within Studio Apts of 9m from the exit point is not the most common occurrence but I may be incorrect in that assumption.

I have come across Studio Apts where the furthest distance to the exit point is less than 9m from any point in the room therefore how could you achieve 9m as in Diagram 3?

I wouldn't have a problem if there was evidence to back up why it should be 9m or any other distance for that matter but I can't see anything to back up why the position within Diagram 3 is the one that should be followed.

It appears to be a grey area open to interpretation but using distances which as you quite rightly point out are not fully relevant.

[wee brian]

the principal is simple enough

cookers catch fire "a lot". if you have a cooker next to your door then you will get trapped "a lot".

AFD and sprinklers are irrelevant. You'll already have a smoke alarm in the flat, any additional detection wont help much and you're probably awake anyway. by the rime the sprinkler goes off, your fire is already one that you wont want to walk up and shake hands with.

so how far should it be from the door.

as a few folk have said, some people have done some plausible sums that say about 1.8m is about right.

could you comfortably walk within 6 feet of a chip pan fire? yes, I think I could. (always check sums with your brain)

QED

[kurnal]

Like all diagrams in the ADB, Diagram 3 simply illustrates the principle, it's ideal from the point of view of fire safety but the flat would most likely have no external windows.

My experience (and I was involved in the design and enforcement of flats design for over 40 years) is that as prices have increased and flats become ever more compact, most developers and building control ignore this recommendation. The most common current design for studio flats, in my experience, is to have modular bathrooms and kitchens immediately inside the flat entrance door with the sleeping living area beyond.

[Mike Buckley]

Bear in mind that the 9m shown in ADB is the maximum travel distance and not the distance the kitchen area should be from the exit. The question should be: in the opinion of the assessor would a fire in the kitchen area prevent relevant persons escaping from the premise?

Remember ADB is guidance not legislation.

[kurnal]

Mike just to point out  there's no assessor or relevant persons- these are domestic premises!

[col10]

The guidance says that the circulation route should be covered by smoke detection and the kitchen area covered by heat detection.  If the cooking facilities are 1.8m from the exit then it is likely that the SD will be continually going off.

[Tom Sutton]

GB do you hail from bonnie scotland because it appears that rule applies there,

Technical Handbook 2013 - Domestic - Complete.   http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Built-Environment/Building/Building-standards/publications/pubtech/th2013domcomp

2.9.7 Escape within dwellings - open plan option with suppression and enhanced early warning

Open plan layouts are becoming more popular with modern living styles. For this option (see table to clause 2.9.2), the following guidance should be followed for open plan layouts provided the kitchen is remote from the exit door. ect

[Fishy]

The situation I have seen had sprinklers, LD1 and calcs to justify the radiated heat allowable at 1.8m.
I would suggest without an engineered solution, a risk assessor should look at the 45 degree rule as a benchmark standard.

Sounds a bit dodgy to me - sprinklers or automatic smoke detection won't help you if you're in the same room as the fire, & radiant heat calc's alone don't take into account smoke & toxic gases.

[kurnal]

Don't overlook BS9991 as a design document.