Author Topic: Extra room in bar  (Read 6945 times)

Offline lyledunn

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Extra room in bar
« on: September 01, 2016, 09:22:30 AM »
I have a small ground floor bar accommodating circa 100. Two MOE. From the central part of the bar an unprotected staircase leads up to the first floor which is used as a store. The area on the first floor is only about 35m2 so I suppose could accommodate circa an additional 70. However, in reality the licensee wants to make the area for darts and claims no more than 30 would be absolute max. Travel distance is about 20m from the furthest point on the first floor to the nearest ground floor exit.
I cannot meet building regulations by providing protection for the staircase as it just discharges into the bar area and is about 7m from the nearest exit.
Exit capacity is already stretched as this pub was built around 1750. One might say, look providing the total number of people in the building does not exceed the current 100 then you can have your darts room. The licensee would be happy with that but would fire safety officers?

Offline LeeM

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Re: Extra room in bar
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2016, 01:26:08 PM »
BS9999 allows accommodation stair to form part of escape path as long as you include travel on stair within travel distance. You would need to consider 25% travel distance reduction for alcohol but as you have two exits on GF should be ok.

Offline Bruce89

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Re: Extra room in bar
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2016, 08:48:57 PM »
Is this an existing premises or one you are dealing with under building regs, if the former which from your description appears the case, DCLG Guidance page 91 fig 47 (ignore the basement if not relevant in your building), appears to match your scenario, page 83 gives further guidance.





Offline Tom Sutton

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Re: Extra room in bar
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2016, 08:44:14 AM »
Where is this premises located because the response will differ depending where in the UK it is, this information should be included in all submissions like this.
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline lyledunn

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Re: Extra room in bar
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2016, 08:53:10 AM »
Thank you vey much for responding. These are existing premises in Northern Ireland. The extra room will be subject to building regulations as they are required to be licensed and therefore need an application to be presented to the magistrates court. The application would be turned down without BC plan approval. To get such approval one can use our approved document, Technical Booklet E, or Bs9999.
I have been tol many times cherry-picking is unacceptable so stick to one or the other.
The first thing to establish is the use of the room which is effectively the landing area at the head of accommodation stairs. The client says he is going to use it as a darts area, there is no fixed seating, so if I use a space factor for bars of 0.5 the numbers exceed Bs9999 and TBE. I am not sure it is wise or even acceptable to use a space factor that might be more representative of the proposal.
I often find that these small jobs stretch the guidance criteria just a tad. Nonetheless, I have learned that adherence to accepted criteria is a prudent course!