Vertical insulated duct penetration detail

[Tomsurv]

Hi everyone,

I am looking to specify the above.

I am considering 2 x 50mm Rockwool Ablative Coated Batt. Based on looking at the pdf would this seem sensible?

Many thanks

Tom

[Tomsurv]

The pdf didn't upload, so here is the content as an image.

[wee brian]

we could get a bit pedantic here.

You shouldn't just make these details up, they should be based on representative test evidence.

How much effort you put into this might depend on circumstances and the risk/liability issues.

My advice would be to run it past the technical folk at Rockwool.

[Tomsurv]

Thanks, I have spoken to Rockwool, and will be going back to site to take some more measurements so they can firm out a spec.

[col10]

What do the access points give access to?

[kurnal]

I think the best advice is to appoint an accredited contractor, such as a member of the ASFP to specify the best solution in this case.

Access will be difficult to some areas of the cavity.
There is the interaction between the lagging on the duct and the fire stopping material to consider in addition to other factors. What is the building used for and what is the role and location of this wall within the building?  
An approved contractor will give a certificate backed up by their TPC.

[Tomsurv]

Thanks Alan. This is used on an industrial unit for ventilation.

This wall enclosing the cupboard you can see is a blockwork riser, nothing structural in here.

What does TPC stand for?

[AnthonyB]

Thanks Alan. This is used on an industrial unit for ventilation.

This wall enclosing the cupboard you can see is a blockwork riser, nothing structural in here.

What does TPC stand for?

Third Party Certification

[col10]

Are they fire dampers? If so need to be mechanically fixed.

[Tomsurv]

Thanks everyone. The queries are all very helpful.

I've not been to site myself, but will be going along in the next week or so and will take measurements to satisfy Rockwool.

I don't believe this is a fire damper but I will consult the O&Ms.

[Mike Buckley]

Hi Tom,

Bear in mind that any fire batt would have to correctly sealed with mastic to cover the joints.

There are a number of alternative methods and materials that can be used for this problem and I would agree with kurnal it is best to get an accredited contractor in either a ASFP or FIRAS accredited would be suitable. They would also provide certification that the work has been carried out to an approved standard.

Also remember that you will be liable for your advice if it goes pear shaped.

[kurnal]

It all might be unnecessary of course depending on location, height, size of building, is it for life safety or property protection, do building regs or insurance requirements apply? EG If it maintains the compartmentation of the building that's all well and good  but often these little heating ducts are bypassed by open stairwells, vents and other openings, or just contain small space heaters that don't shut down on detection of fire, if that's the case money might be wasted.

[Tomsurv]

Hi Tom,

Bear in mind that any fire batt would have to correctly sealed with mastic to cover the joints.

There are a number of alternative methods and materials that can be used for this problem and I would agree with kurnal it is best to get an accredited contractor in either a ASFP or FIRAS accredited would be suitable. They would also provide certification that the work has been carried out to an approved standard.

Also remember that you will be liable for your advice if it goes pear shaped.

Thanks for this advice, I have checked the accredited contractor database and make this a requirement of the main contractor I am looking to have appointed.

It all might be unnecessary of course depending on location, height, size of building, is it for life safety or property protection, do building regs or insurance requirements apply? EG If it maintains the compartmentation of the building that's all well and good  but often these little heating ducts are bypassed by open stairwells, vents and other openings, or just contain small space heaters that don't shut down on detection of fire, if that's the case money might be wasted.

This is useful thanks. The works are intended to assist lift safety primarily. When you talk mention open stairwells bypassing the requirement to fire stop elsewhere, I'm not sure what you mean. Surely all stair wells are 'open' so to speak (i.e. there isn't a door between intermediate floors). Could you please clarify?

[kurnal]

I was just referring to the point that it is an industrial unit and often such buildings can be small, incorporate no compartmentation, open stairs (Ie without fire doors top and bottom) and other unprotected shafts. That's all, I was really suggesting that it might be worthwhile to carry out an assessment in respect of the need, whether it be property, business continuity, building regs or life safety before going ahead. Then the assessment would identify the standard of fire resistance necessary to meet the requirement.

But I am talking completely blind and probably nonsense, never having seen any detail of the premises other than for your photo.

[Tomsurv]

I was just referring to the point that it is an industrial unit and often such buildings can be small, incorporate no compartmentation, open stairs (Ie without fire doors top and bottom) and other unprotected shafts. That's all, I was really suggesting that it might be worthwhile to carry out an assessment in respect of the need, whether it be property, business continuity, building regs or life safety before going ahead. Then the assessment would identify the standard of fire resistance necessary to meet the requirement.

But I am talking completely blind and probably nonsense, never having seen any detail of the premises other than for your photo.

Thanks kurnal - understood.