Polystyrene coverings to external walls - residentail

[Fire Monkey]

Hello,

I met a builder recently (who specialises in small, low rise, residential redevelopments). They said they had been fitting polystyrene to external wall and covering with this with a type if spray on material that acted like a render. Unfortunately I could not probe for information on how the materials were being applied or what their specifications were. Has any one come across such a thing?

FM

[Owain]

BS EN 13163 Thermal insulation products for buildings ? Factory made products of expanded polystyrene (EPS)
BS EN 13499 Thermal insulation products for buildings. External insulation composite systems (ETICS) based on expanded polystyrene
BS 6203 Guide to fire characteristics and fire performance of expanded polystyrene materials (EPS and XPS) used in building applications

Whether what your building is fitting complies with any of the above is another matter.

http://www.eps.co.uk/pdfs/firesafe_buildings.pdf

eg
http://www.jablite.co.uk/application/jablite-external-wall-insulation/

[Tom Sutton]

Could it be a StoTherm Vario system which has been subjected to BS 8414 Part 2

Check out http://www.sto.co.uk/en/products/external-wall-insulation/external-wall-insulation.html

[colin todd]

Tam,  What exactly does the BS 8414-2 reference mean, given that you can only test an entire wall build up and BS 8414-2 does not have failure criteria in it, other than the test has to be stopped if, during the duration of the test, the flames extend above the rig.

I was once tested by Rockschool for Grade 5 drums .........but I failed.  (Obviously, the examiner was rhythm deaf as I passed next time.)

[Fishy]

If the detailing is done right (as regards lines of fire resistance), and the render is reasonably thick and cementitious then for low-rise resi (in principle) I don't see a problem - it's just another form of combustible insulation technology, and that's not prohibited in low-rise?

[lyledunn]

I know what Joe Public is saying; don't give me all this BS bull, does it burn mate? I have a feeling that many folk are less confident about criteria in standards, seeing them as the watered down outcome of a committee of vested interests and grey-haired has beens. Still, for the moment, I guess that it all we have got!

[Tom Sutton]

Tam,  What exactly does the BS 8414-2 reference mean, given that you can only test an entire wall build up and BS 8414-2 does not have failure criteria in it, other than the test has to be stopped if, during the duration of the test, the flames extend above the rig.

I accept there is no scientific method  to determine a failure criteria but if the test has to be stopped because the flames extend above the rig then it is a clear failure but if there is no spread for 30 minutes then I would consider it a pass.

Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amXs0uEaSwM also if you read the brochure there are other, system Approvals, BBA certification No. 95/3132 and European Technical Approval ETA-03/0027

[colin todd]

Tam,  with respect you misunderstand the test and how the results are used.  If there is no basis for scientific determination of failure, what do you think the thermocouples are doing there.  Try reading BR 135, which has been around since about 1988.

Lyle I realise that accuracy plays no real part in posts here, as the bulletin board has descended into the Daily Mail comment page, but I feel bound to note that there are no pass or fail criteria in BS 8414, so they cannot be watered down.  If anyone knew the first thing about the standard, it is an  aggressive fire test that incorporates a 3.5 MW peak output fire that simulates a post flashover fire with flames emanating from a window and rising up the building, which, with PE core ACM cladding, extended beyond the top of the 9m rig long before the test could even be run to conclusion.

The committee responsible for the original BS 8414-2 included experts from across the sector, and representatives of BRE, the FBU, Rapra, two universities, Government, the Institute of Fire Safety as well as relevant trade associations, most of whom were "are nows", rather than "has beens".  However, like the approach taken by the Daily Mail, the facts are really rather a lot more boring than a good piece of fake news.

However, if it can be explained to me why anyone would see the test as watered down (other than by hose streams on conclusion of the test) I am happy to learn.

[Tom Sutton]

I now understand that British Standards 8414 provides the data and does not set performance criteria and performance classification, it is or can be set by end users:-

Examples include, BR135 which sets performance limits used in UK Building Regulation guidance and LPS 1581 which sets performance limits used for property protection applications

I stand corrected; I should have said the specifications have been tested on full scale reaction to fire test (BS 8414) and meet the requirements for BR135. 

I read BR 135 in 1991 when I was in charge of Knowsley and St Helens fire safety but I accept I need to study the 3rd edition.

[lyledunn]

For clarity, I am not deriding any standard or the folk that compile them, I am merely reporting public sentiment on the issue of exterior cladding and their view of experts. The standards may well be sufficiently robust, they may satisfy fire safety experts, building control et al, but any developer trying to flog an appartment in a building clad in any material remotely construed as combustible will have a tougher job since the advent of that unmentionable tower block fire.
Whatever one might think of the Daily Mail or any other rag, the opinions expressed by them, fake or otherwise, end up as public perception which is a real tough nut to crack.

[colin todd]

Lyle, you did say that YOU guessed that all we got (sic) was the committees and tests that were derided.  Ergo, you indicated concurrence with the rubbish spouted by not just the public but people who should know better, who can merely make sweeping genralisms that bear no relationship to facts.

[wee brian]

Imagine my surprise when I went in my loft yesterday only to find the roof is made of combustible materials (wood).

I immediately moved my family into the garden shed (asbestos cement).

[colin todd]

Did you know that it is a statistical fact that there are more people die from fires in garden sheds each year than die in fires in warehouses.  Why do people keep banging on about sprinklering warehouses.  Its the garden sheds that need them.  I have been telling you for years you need to require sprinkler protection of garden sheds.  And now not only do you allow these deaths to continue but you move your family into the deathtraps.  Expect to hear from Childline.  We know where you live.

[col10]

The warehouse also has greater risk to the fire fighter, business, economy and the environment.

[nearlythere]

Did you know that it is a statistical fact that there are more people die from fires in garden sheds each year than die in fires in warehouses.  Why do people keep banging on about sprinklering warehouses.  Its the garden sheds that need them.  I have been telling you for years you need to require sprinkler protection of garden sheds.  And now not only do you allow these deaths to continue but you move your family into the deathtraps.  Expect to hear from Childline.  We know where you live.

Can people get in to their garden sheds? I can't get in to mine. I can't even get in to my garage. Is one suppose to be able?