Monitoring Fire Alarm System Components ???

[Messy]

I have come across a fire detection system where it appears that some of the significant components (a large bank of relays) are not monitored. So as far as I can understand, any of those relays can suffer a coil burn out or other major defect and no fault signal will be generated.

This doesn't seem right to me, but not being a fire alarm engineer or having more than a working knowledge of the headlines of BS 5839-1 - I am not sure if this is acceptable or not.

Does anyone know if components attached to CIE need to be monitored in a similar way as each device does (head or MCP)? It seems logical to me, but....?

Just to be clear, I am asking if this set up 'complies' with 5839 as if it doesn't, I will be able to exert more pressure to get it updated.

Thanks

[Tom Sutton]

Is it not the bs en 54 series you need to check out, for instance BS EN 54-2:1997+A1:2006 Fire detection and fire alarm systems. Control and indicating equipment. BS 5839-1 about installation not construction?

[AnthonyB]

What are the relays operating?

[Messy]

My understanding is that the relays operate VAS circuits on different floors and escalate to create a phased evacuation strategy from a complex cause & effect matrix.

Other relays shut doors, ground lifts and isolate some ventilation etc

[AnthonyB]

The signal from relays to the VADs would definitely need some form of fault monitoring under Section 12 of BS5839-1, the other relays would depend on the requirements of the relevant part of BS7273 (or so BS5839 says)

[Fishy]

I had a similar situation with a non-monitored fire panel / PA rack link in a PAVA (though it was for a fairly simple staged alarm arrangement, not phased evac). 

We ended up deciding to test the PAVA system on a daily basis until it was upgraded to a BS 5839-8 compliant system.

[Messy]

Many thanks for the replies, it is really appreciated.

Meetings are planned for next week where I will drop the bombshell to the RP that its highly likely-to-certain they don't have a compliant AFD system (and then I will run away & take cover!!)

Thanks again

[alonso]

Quite a lot of fire alarm output relays are unmonitored. I can live with that as long as those relays aren't switching sounders. I try to minimise the unmonitored part by having the relay as close as possible to the equipment it is controlling and setting it up as failsafe where possible.

[Messy]

Quite a lot of fire alarm output relays are unmonitored. I can live with that as long as those relays aren't switching sounders.

That is exactly my point. I won't die in a ditch over a few automatic fire doors not closing or a kitchen exact not shutting down, but sounders are an entirely different matter

Thanks

[AnthonyB]

But some people could die (or more likely you loose more of the property) if automatic fire doors don't close and that's why we have BS7273-4