Herts lack of equipment?

[Cut Fire Service Pay]

Is it true what I am being told that Herts FRS do not have foam tenders/bulk supplies? This would seem to be outrageous if it were true. I realise that such a job would require a nationwide foam scrounge anyhow but having the 5th largest oil storage depot on your ground and not being prepared. This is the same brigade that has been planning to shut fire stations!

Well done the boys & girls at the sharp end!! I bet the visit from johnny prescot helped morale.

[wee brian]

Taking 24 hours to get the kit to deal with a one in 50 year event seems pretty good to me.

[b217bravo]

I can't believe the FBU's attitude, I hate what Blair, Prescott et al have done/are doing to the service I love but I also believe that even before the changes/cuts no FRS would have had the capability of dealing with this incident.
Essex, Cheshire, Humberside & Cleveland all have big petrochem sites on their patches but I bet none of them train to tackle a fire involving 20 tanks, the resources required are almost beyond comprehension.
Sorry to say this but I think on this occassion the FBU has totally lost the plot!
A big CONGRATULATIONS & WELL DONE to all the lads & lasses for a teriffic job in the most dangerous & difficult circumstances, you did the service proud.
geoff

[p.b.morgan]

Hear, hear, Geoff.

We live about 6 miles away and franklyhave been very impressed by time to control.

Penny

[Big A]

Agreed. FBU must be living in fantasy land if they think that brigades the size of Herts (and all others, presumably) could/should ever have that level of resources.

[Paul]

I think there are two points here.  1stly, I don't think I am alone in thinking that I am surprised at such a FRS not having a foam unit on their patch, having such a large fuel dopot.

However 2ndly and more importantly, even if they did, it would of made no difference what so ever, this was dealt with in a calm and professional manner, the crews did a 1st class job with the aid of national resources.

What would of opened a different can of worms though, is; would this incident of been handled diffenrtly if it happened mid week at maximum occpancy.  I feel we could of been looking at something along 9/11 proportions.  Thank god, it must be christmas!!

[messy]

Whether Herts have bulk foam capabilities or not, would not have speeded up the reaction to Buncefield by even one second.

However, with presumably 100's of thousands of litres of flammable liquids trundling around the miles of the UK's busiest motorways within Hert's patch (M1, M25, M10 and A1), I find it difficult to believe Herts haven't got some kind of system, plan or strategy to deliver bulk foam.

The FBU's rapid but politically motivated attack has been premature and ill conceived. There will almost certainly have been errors made at Buncefield which would not make the public domain.  The FBU should have taken their time and conducted their own investigation and reported the significant findings i due course.

Sadly that chance has now been lost, as any further FBU press released will be seen as scaremongering and will not attract as much attention as it would have done. It's also likely that any contribution from the FBU into any public inquiry would have lost some credibility as a result of this PR fiasco

[Frankie]

When you think that some brigades take 4-5 hours to put out a standing crop or field fire...... the time that Herts et al took to control Buncefield is pretty remarkable. Who in their right mind is going to store millions and millions of litres of foam for something that has such a low likelyhood of occurring. I feel those self same people moaning about the lack of foam would have been moaning had herts had the resources and Buncefield had not gone up about "stockpiling" and "wasting money"..... some people like whinging. Also i think that the FBU are becoming more and more militant..... it isn't about the firefighters anymore.... this is political.... when they get what they want they'll sell out. Or just carry on moaning.

[Paul Grimwood]

I think the FBU are right to make such statements at a time when the media hype over the incident is fresh. Their remarks and timing should be welcomed by FBU members. Never at any time have they criticised the high levels of professionalism and extreme bravery of the firefighters who fought this fire. What they have done is attacked the lack of pre-planning and specialist knowledge available for such an incident.

There is no doubt that this was a most rare and unusual incident for the UK Fire Service and they coped reasonably well. However, with a more pro-active stance the service would have been better prepared to deal with such a catastrophic situation. There have been repeated warnings from service personnel that 'we' were unprepared for the scope of such an incident and yet there was little action to prepare.

In a time of terrorist threats we should have been better prepared. You can be certain that there were major lessons learned in the aftermath of this incident by all brigades. Well done the FBU for highlighting these failings and representing the members so well on this occasion.

[ian gough]

I agree with much of what you say Paul. Furthermore, this fire should be viewed as a national disgrace. We should be ashamed - particularly as we 'export' our so called 'expertise' to oil producing countries or charge them to come here and learn how it should be done.
Herts Fire Authority, in my opinion, are perhaps lucky that it went 'bang' so early. What if the fire had spread slower from something like a tanker or other vehicle?

[Cut Fire Service Pay]

On another point it was interesting to see the HVP units in use! And yes I do think perhaps the FBU jumped in a little quick but they have a point.

[Frankie]

You lot are living in cloud cuckoo land.... I'm very sure you'd be moaning if they had have spent time and money preparing for a disaster that never happened..... You'd be moaning that the Fire Authorities had invested too much time and money. Face it it's the FBU that are the disgrace, what a way to slap the FFs in the face!

[Cut Fire Service Pay]

You lot are living in cloud cuckoo land.... I'm very sure you'd be moaning if they had have spent time and money preparing for a disaster that never happened..... You'd be moaning that the Fire Authorities had invested too much time and money. Face it it's the FBU that are the disgrace, what a way to slap the FFs in the face!

Nope not cloud cucko land just reality! The point of this discussion was did Herts have enough equipemt to deal with a Petro-chemical incident. Its not a witch hunt, just a sensible question. There is a great deal of fire service equipment that lies idol for a great deal of time (such as foam tenders/bulk foam & HVPs) but its there if we need it.

No one expects a brigade to have enough foam & equipment to deal with something the size of Buncefield but did they have enough for the day to day risk & any minor incident?

As for the FBU, well they have made more than a few cock-ups over the years and i'm no union man but I think they were right to question Herts fire authoritys' preperation for such an incident. They NEVER once slapped the Firefighters in the face, in fact if you read the press articles from the FBU they like everyone in the UK has nothing but the highest praise for them!

[Frankie]

Let's face facts. The FBU propaganda machine decided that they could score points by launching a scathing attack on the Herts Fire Service and completely undermine the Firefighters..... it's totally beyond question that many Herts FFs and other FBU members have reacted angrily to the FBUs tactlessness.....

Maybe they should engage brain before being too smug..... They have the benefit of hindsight..... were they calling for a stockpile of HVPs or Foam prior to this?

[wee brian]

Pete is right though the Union were having a go at the brigade for being ill prepared not at the firefighters themselves. It was a slick response from Herts etc that made it appear that the union were betraying their own heroic members.

Unfortunately the Union failed to get this message across.

That's showbiz.