Regular Inspections of Flat Entrance Doors

[Suttonfire]

I understand that in the Fire Safety Bill it is proposed to mandate regular inspections of flat entrance doors (potentially quarterly or annually dependent on which related article you read).

Is it considered likely that the expectation will be that landlords will gain access to 100% of their flat entrance doors to carry out full inspections of both sides within each time interval?

I can not see how this will be realistic for large councils etc with a stock of 1000s of flat entrance doors. I have recently been involved with a stock wide inspection of 3000 flat entrance doors and 2 years since the commencement date there are still 40 or so doors for which access to inspect has not been achieved, despite repeated efforts.

I would be interested to hear views on what would be considered to be reasonable in instances where arranging repeated full access across a large number of doors will be problematic.

[AnthonyB]

From experience of access for sprinklers, annual would be enough of a struggle. Even though the proposed check is just of the closer it's the access that is the issue - easier if it's Social Housing or a similar scheme where the freeholder also is the landlord for the flats, but a nightmare where you have a varied mix of owner occupiers, different landlords, etc.

[colin todd]

Oh don't make such a fuss! Apparently, it is entirely possible on Planet Zanussi, to which we have all been teleported by all the wise people who have strayed into the field of fire safety knowing very little in terms of custom, practice and practicability, but feeling able to pontificate nevertheless.

Wait!!!! You aren't still living on Planet Earth are you??  OMG! did you not know it was abandoned long ago.  Surely you must have noticed that no one speaks Earthling any more.

[PGtips]

Hi all, has this debate moved on any? Am I right in thinking that this cannot be charged to residents? So I am wondering if a 3rd party is engaged to basically camp on the premises and get access to 100's of privately owned flats and make lots of later abortive visits, if this can't be added to the service charge - who pays?  AND - if something is found to be wrong - who organises for remedials to the appropriate standard, and again, who pays? AND - assuming F&RS will wait for compliance for the next round of FRAs - they wont be expecting compliant assessment with full details of doors from March or whenever this will become law....actually is there a confirmed date for this to become law as yet?  Many thanks in advance for any clarity....

[AnthonyB]

It's got to get through the Commons again first where the Lords Amendments are to be debated tomorrow. Blocks where the leaseholders have used 'right to buy' and all part own the site would remain liable, interesting times ahead for investor freeholders unless things get tweaked in Ping Pong - elements have already been watered down once, I seem to remember the flat door check was originally proposed to be more frequent than annually.

[PGtips]

Thanks Anthony - the way I read the amendments voted down yesterday, is that now, it is was before, that a "reasonable sample" of resi flats doors should be included in a FRA as they are now explicitly within the FSO, along with consideration of the external walls. AND - bills for this can be in the service charge?


 

[AnthonyB]

It looks like everything is back to how it is now regarding doors and charging, I'm waiting to see the final version that goes to assent as it keeps changing all the time at the moment!

[PGtips]

phew - thanks for taking the time to reply Anthony, that makes a lot more sense effort should be placed where you get the best benefit in my view - no point checking 100's of perfectly good doors - concentrate on the dogs I say!

[Suttonfire]

Hi,

Any links to the latest news on this? thanks

[AnthonyB]

Back in the Lord's tomorrow for them to consider the Commons amendments and if they see fit try and bring their back again.

[Suttonfire]

Now that the Bill has been passed, is there  any clear guidance as to requirements to inspect ALL flat entrance doors, and the required frequency of inspections? Is a representative sample of doors acceptable?

All that I can see is that all flat entrance doors are now included within the scope of the RRFSO?

[AnthonyB]

No, that is to come later, presumably with the publication of the revised "mandatory" guidance. Most of the Act isn't enacted yet and requires further Statutory Instruments to trigger (which weren't there when I last checked this afternoon)

[colin todd]

You need to distinguish between what the RP needs to do in checking s/c devices and what the fire risk assessor can be expected to do.

[Suttonfire]

Thanks,

Is it likely to be a requirement that the RP inspects all flat entrance doors within defined intervals (how can they be assured of that an acceptable standard is being achieved without doing so)? Also, any guidance on what it would be reasonable to expect of the fire risk assessor during the inspection (a representative sample % of doors?).

[AnthonyB]

I ask for a sample of doors any way, usually a selection of original doors and any changed ones where possible. Gaining flat access reveals other things you often never know about (as the RP doesn't know) - a recent site (conversion of 19th century building) I went to had been put down as having a superfluous common area only fire alarm and stay put suitable in a past FRA where no flats where accessed yet on entering the sample flats I discovered that the system actually extended into each flat with heat detectors and bells (dating back at least 30-35 years based on the age of the detectors) and exposed wooden beams thus raising the question as to whether the construction should have been so readily assumed to be stay put compatible.

Oddly the system, despite appearing to be late 80's, was a 3-wire 240V system with no panel as common in the early certification days that had 24V Apollo heads off relays/transformers in large boxes