Author Topic: Fire Risk assessment  (Read 4321 times)

Offline leejr

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Fire Risk assessment
« on: January 24, 2006, 11:39:21 AM »
Can anyone tell me where a risk assessment has been completed for a hotel which holds an existing 71 act fire certificate and the risk assessment for instance fails to identify the absence of detection in a letted bedroom have the fire authority the power to serve an enforcement notice for the risk assessment to be reviewed and amnded
many thanks

Offline PhilB

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Fire Risk assessment
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2006, 01:49:47 PM »
A few problems there. The Workplace Fire Precautions legislation(WPFPL) is primarily concerned with the safety of employees, not the hotel guests. Yes I know there is a tenuous link but that is another arguement.

A fire authority could serve an enforcement notice if an employer had failed to carry out a suitable & sufficient risk assessment, but who would determine what is suitable & sufficient? Suitable & sufficient is well explained in ACOP to MHSW Regs but ultimately only a Court could decide.

The best option, in my opinion, if all negotiation attempts failed would be to serve an enforcemnt notice if in the opinion of the fire authority someone has failed to comply with the WPFPL by failing to provide suitable fire warning and detection. But back to my first point that notice would have no teeth if no employees were affected by that failure.

Never mind the RRFSO will sort out the problem ..doh!

messy

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Fire Risk assessment
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2006, 05:01:08 PM »
London's policy is, when dealing with a certified building, and having to resort to fomal action, to use the FPA.

Offline kurnal

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Fire Risk assessment
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2006, 07:22:30 PM »
At risk of teaching my grandad to suck eggs once again ( a common and irritating habit of mine) a backward step would probably be helpful.
Rather than becoming engaged in legal debate lets first  think about what is the right standard of detection for the hotel, and whether anyone is at risk as a result of this.
We really dont need to worry too much about whether its staff or guests at risk the workplace regs may be tenuous but  dont forget hoteliers have a duty of care to their guests and this duty is administered by the staff.

It may not just be the character, nature, condition and layout of the building that determines risk, it will also be influenced by the nature of its use and customers. So if there is a history of fires, false alarms, near misses or enforcement action (due to poor management rather than over zealous enforcement) then the risk assessor if appointed and the enforcement authority will probably be singing from the same hymn sheet, and persuading the occupier of the wisdom of upgrading in view of the risk.

A few risk assessors, thinking they are serving the interests of their reluctant client may well back the status quo, try to confuse the issue by throwing in legal argument about the FP Act etc - the question that usually floors such assessors is to turn the tables by asking them to underwrite the standards as they exist and to carry the risk upon their insurance. It helps for the enforcement officer to then take a softly softly approach and  just watch as suddenly their attitude changes! Then be sympathetic to agreeing a reasonable period to program the inevitable improvements into the business plan.

On the other hand, if the owner has just simply carried out their own substandard risk assessment and the standards really are a problem  then  surely it it shouldn't be too difficult for a professional expert enforcement officer to persuade , educate and inform the owner of the error of their ways. backed up with strongly worded letters about validity of insurance etc.
Unless conditions have changed the FP Act is not likely to be of much assistance here, Workplace regs at the moment are a little tenuous and a wise rule is never to threaten legal enforcement unless absolutely sure of your ground and as a last resort. Bring in the RRO!

I know it sounds simplistic but its an approach that has rarely failed me- even with some of the national  chains. Though I do accept that the strategy may not always work- Thinking of the bedrooms of a well known holiday camp in Gloucestershire!