FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Technical Advice => Topic started by: David Rooney on May 29, 2009, 11:39:51 PM
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A good electrical contractor (there are one or two) friend of mine keeps telling me cables need to be metal clipped/tied every 300mm (ish) in order to retain their fire integrity and comply with 5839.
Our BAFE man is happy for plastic ties every 300mm and metal ties every 1m.
Any thoughts ??
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You're indeed right David, we are LPS1014, and then insist the metal tie wrap every 1 metre and plastic as you have stated
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You aren't allowed to use plastic as the sole means of support but as intermediatery support between metal fixings.Our contractors are around the 1 metre mark for metal ties - cuts down on cost on big systems!
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I agree with all the above BS5839-1 says
f) Methods of cable support should be !non-combustible and" such that circuit integrity will not be
reduced below that afforded by the cable used, and should withstand a similar temperature and duration
to that of the cable, while maintaining adequate support.
!NOTE 8" In effect, this recommendation precludes the use of plastic cable clips, cable ties or trunking, where these products are the sole means of cable support.
Maybe your contractor friend only read the first part of the standard, although I do feel this is left a little to much to interpretation and should be completely clarified. Who knows if they do a update of the standard we can get it clarified a little better.
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Tam, It is clear. Ask yourself if you want ties at 1m spacing holding up a length of char. If you are happy with that then its fine, but I am not sure that the cable manufacturer would be in most circumstances.
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This is the issue.... to maintain the cable integrity the manufacturer (not 5839) is stating the cable must be supported as per regs... eg every 300mm using metal ties....
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Colin,
I think this thread proves its not clear.
Davids Bafe man said 1m metal ties with plastic in between.
Big fella's LPS1014 said the same.
I have FSA/ECA inspections for my A3 scheme who will only accept metal ties/clips all round.
the manufactures I have spoke to want metal if not supported in another way (but not plastic clips).
So what is the correct one?
As far as I remember (please someone correct me if I am wrong) this came about because a fireman got tangled in some fire cable and unfortunately lost his life. Now if this is so would metal ties at a metre spacing cause the cable to sag sufficiently to tangle someone.
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Thomas
I believe the fireman losing his life however unfortunate is a red herring. In any building the fire alarm cables are less than 1% of the total electrical wiring and even if the fire alarm cables were secured on metal clips the other 99% of cables would not be so it would make no significant difference.
I believe its all about manufacturers specification - the configuration they submitted for fire testing. From trade literature and fire test reports most appear to submit their samples for testing secured with 300mm spacing between metal clips in the horizontal plane and 400mm in the vertical plane and so if relying on that fire test data we must replicate it in the field. Otherwise we are using effectively untested cable for our fire alarm system. Is that a significant hazard? Well maybe not for some circuits on some alarm systems. I still know of many BS5839 - 1980 systems with PVC twin and earth on detector circuits. But for sounder circuits on older systems and for loops on analogue addressable systems its a different matter. In my opinion.
Meanwhile the majority of installers use plastic tie wraps as far as I can see. And nothing at all where they think their work is unseen.
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As the old genteleman says, its nothing to do with firemen getting tangled in cables. We told the world about this donkeys years ago. Sadly, the world did not listen.
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My opinion for what it is worth,
I believe that it is not sufficient merely to say that manufacturers recommendations should be part of a risk assessment.
The recommendations of the individual manufacturer should be the guiding factor for such crucial
installations.
But I would welcome a move towards a consistent recommendation that can be
supported by a defined methods of verification.
Or for simplicity state in 5839-1 that any fire cables that have to be supported by clips/ ties etc must use metal fixings at maximum of 300mm.
Just on this forum we have several different "correct" methods of cable fixingi, surely this shows that it is not clear.
I was recently at a big warehouse in Carlisle, and saw that the brand new fire alarm system is totally held up with plasic ties (not a single metal fixing anywhere) and this was a fair sized fire company not a sparky contractor.
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I think the BS recommendation on this point is clear and perfectly written. I don't think it needs to be elaborated.
A leading manufacturer of fire resistant cables explained to me that a certain amount of movement of a cable during a fire may affect it's continued fire resistance. Hence the need for the fire resistance of the support of a cable being at least equal to the fire resistance of the cable.
The affect of movement was explained to me as follows: If a fire resistant cable is subjected to enough heat, a chemical reaction occurs that causes the otherwise flexible fire resistant cable to become brittle whilst still maintaining it's fire resistant properties. However movement of the cable in it's brittle condition can cause the the brittle layer to crack open and allow flames access to the cable cores and destroy them quickly.
The need for correctly supporting a fire resistant cable is therefore of paramount importance.
However, It is up to each cable manufacturer to confirm at what intervals their particular cable needs to be supported to maintain fire resistance.
If the BS was to include a specific recommendation, say for example, every 600mm, and I invented a cable that only needed to be supported every 1000mm, I would be prevented from using this greater fixing distance intervals as a unique selling point for my cable because of BS!
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However, It is up to each cable manufacturer to confirm at what intervals their particular cable needs to be supported to maintain fire resistance.
With my patented marking scheme of H stamped every 300mm and V every 400mm it would make life a lot easier.
btw, who would issue a commissioning certificate with variations if they found the cables with plastic clips or ties or in MMT2/conduit with no metal support anywhere, and who would not issue a commissioning certificate until it was rectified?
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The commissioning engineer is responsible for ensuring the system is fully testing and operational, it's not necessarily the commissioning engineers responsibility for the installation of the system.
The engineer 'should' check where pratical the installation of the system complies, but realistically this may not be possible (cables at high level/concealed etc).
This would relate to the installing party when it comes to issuing the installation certificate. Will they provide such documentation to confirm that the system is installed correctly? Many a times the installation certificate is never produced !!
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However, It is up to each cable manufacturer to confirm at what intervals their particular cable needs to be supported to maintain fire resistance.
With my patented marking scheme of H stamped every 300mm and V every 400mm it would make life a lot easier.
Greg C, your patented marking scheme of H every 300mm and V every 400mm will be no good for my imaginary newly invented cable that enables wider spacings ;)
However, I will mark the cable with H's and V's at the appropriate spacings to suit my cable, because your idea is a good idea.
Obviously where the H's and V's coincide it will say H & V and everyone will just think it is a cable for the air-conditioning unit!
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Obviously where the H's and V's coincide it will say H & V and everyone will just think it is a cable for the air-conditioning unit!
Dammit, foiled again......
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As the old genteleman says, its nothing to do with firemen getting tangled in cables. We told the world about this donkeys years ago. Sadly, the world did not listen.
The truth will never supplant a good rumour.
What other 'old wives tales' do you enjoy?
I particularly enjoy the one about use of mobile phones causing fires in petrol filling stations.
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The one about you going blind is also false in my vast and enjoyable experience 8)
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I think the BS recommendation on this point is clear and perfectly written. I don't think it needs to be elaborated.
A leading manufacturer of fire resistant cables explained to me that a certain amount of movement of a cable during a fire may affect it's continued fire resistance. Hence the need for the fire resistance of the support of a cable being at least equal to the fire resistance of the cable.
The affect of movement was explained to me as follows: If a fire resistant cable is subjected to enough heat, a chemical reaction occurs that causes the otherwise flexible fire resistant cable to become brittle whilst still maintaining it's fire resistant properties. However movement of the cable in it's brittle condition can cause the the brittle layer to crack open and allow flames access to the cable cores and destroy them quickly.
The need for correctly supporting a fire resistant cable is therefore of paramount importance.
However, It is up to each cable manufacturer to confirm at what intervals their particular cable needs to be supported to maintain fire resistance.
If the BS was to include a specific recommendation, say for example, every 600mm, and I invented a cable that only needed to be supported every 1000mm, I would be prevented from using this greater fixing distance intervals as a unique selling point for my cable because of BS!
Wiz, I'm quite interested in this, which manufacturer was this? Either message here or PM me?
Cheers
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As the old genteleman says, its nothing to do with firemen getting tangled in cables. We told the world about this donkeys years ago. Sadly, the world did not listen.
Colin
Your little book mentions that the code ammendment 2008 has drawn attention to the hazzard of falling cables to fire fighters after the death of two fire fighters who were entangled in fire alarm cables.
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The falling fire cable thing has always been a red herring as it's generally the data or power cables etc. that are thrown in like spaghettil!
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I think the BS recommendation on this point is clear and perfectly written. I don't think it needs to be elaborated.
A leading manufacturer of fire resistant cables explained to me that a certain amount of movement of a cable during a fire may affect it's continued fire resistance. Hence the need for the fire resistance of the support of a cable being at least equal to the fire resistance of the cable.
The affect of movement was explained to me as follows: If a fire resistant cable is subjected to enough heat, a chemical reaction occurs that causes the otherwise flexible fire resistant cable to become brittle whilst still maintaining it's fire resistant properties. However movement of the cable in it's brittle condition can cause the the brittle layer to crack open and allow flames access to the cable cores and destroy them quickly.
The need for correctly supporting a fire resistant cable is therefore of paramount importance.
However, It is up to each cable manufacturer to confirm at what intervals their particular cable needs to be supported to maintain fire resistance.
If the BS was to include a specific recommendation, say for example, every 600mm, and I invented a cable that only needed to be supported every 1000mm, I would be prevented from using this greater fixing distance intervals as a unique selling point for my cable because of BS!
Wiz, I'm quite interested in this, which manufacturer was this? Either message here or PM me?
Cheers
BigFella, If we are talking about how the cable becomes brittle with high heat etc., this was someone from Pirelli and it was about 12 years ago.
Further interesting comments about flexible fire resistant cable (for the fire alarm industry) that I was personally told about (a different manufacturer this time) was that the instructions for use of their original version of their fire resisting cable did not make it clear that the fire resistance was only valid when the cable was affixed to a wall or metal tray of substantial construction that could absorb some of the heat being applied to a cable. i.e a cable installed with nothing adjacent to it, to absorb the heat, wouldn't last the 30 minutes required. Evidently, when it was realised that cables were often being installed not against a wall or metal tray they hurriedly had to find a solution and developed an 'improved' version of the cable - but they never widely broadcast the reason why they needed to do this.
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The one about you going blind is also false in my vast and enjoyable experience 8)
I originally heard it was meant to stunt your growth.
But, obviously this is wrong otherwise they wouldn't keep the porn mags on the top shelf :D
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Graeme, So long as the cable does not fall, it will not be a hazrad to fire-fighters. That IS another reason not to use plastic. However, the trend of mixing plastic and metal will be fine for that. However, it may not be fine for circuit integrity.
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So isn't it down to our wonderful risk assessment then.... if the cable has done its job and raised the alarm in a single stage system ... why does it need to maintain any further integrity??
And does this then mean that even "enhanced" cable is no better than standard if it isn't clipped properly??
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So isn't it down to our wonderful risk assessment then.... if the cable has done its job and raised the alarm in a single stage system ... why does it need to maintain any further integrity??
And does this then mean that even "enhanced" cable is no better than standard if it isn't clipped properly??
Good questions, somethings I have'nt thought about
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... if the cable has done its job and raised the alarm in a single stage system ... why does it need to maintain any further integrity??
Because it has to continue to operate for a further 30 minutes ?
ie sounders, or in addressable systems, the fire could be spreading further.
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.........And does this then mean that even "enhanced" cable is no better than standard if it isn't clipped properly??
I would suggest that either cable has the potential not to meet it's specified abilities if it is not installed strictly in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.
If the manufacturer's recommendations are to a higher standard than the BS (or any other) recommendation then the manufacturer's recommendation takes precedence.
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.........And does this then mean that even "enhanced" cable is no better than standard if it isn't clipped properly??
I would suggest that either cable has the potential not to meet it's specified abilities if it is not installed strictly in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.
If the manufacturer's recommendations are to a higher standard than the BS (or any other) recommendation then the manufacturer's recommendation takes precedence.
Ahh, but Wiz, the manufacturers do not call for metal clips, they ask for support at prescribed distances, do they not?
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http://www.fpcables.co.uk/page.php/faqs
"Copper "P" clips or steel ties can also be used to install FP200®. Plastic or Aluminium clips should not be used as the sole means of support as these will burn during a fire. Reference numbers are shown in our brochure."
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.........And does this then mean that even "enhanced" cable is no better than standard if it isn't clipped properly??
I would suggest that either cable has the potential not to meet it's specified abilities if it is not installed strictly in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.
If the manufacturer's recommendations are to a higher standard than the BS (or any other) recommendation then the manufacturer's recommendation takes precedence.
Ahh, but Wiz, the manufacturers do not call for metal clips, they ask for support at prescribed distances, do they not?
But plastic ones would not support Gregc.
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This is my point exactly.
Everyone has a slightly different opinion, why not just put it in the standard "only metal clipsor fixings are to be used at spacings not exceeding 12 inches".
No more confusion.
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It's amazing, that when we install we use metal every 1 metre and plastic at intervals between that, and this is always approved by LPS1014 when we are audited. Yet there are still so many opinions on this, probably why we see so many variants in installation methods. It's interesting to see others points of views.
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As the man said......"it's a funny old game........!!! "
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As the man said......"it's a funny old game........!!! "
Small jumpers,boys for goal posts!
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.........And does this then mean that even "enhanced" cable is no better than standard if it isn't clipped properly??
I would suggest that either cable has the potential not to meet it's specified abilities if it is not installed strictly in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.
If the manufacturer's recommendations are to a higher standard than the BS (or any other) recommendation then the manufacturer's recommendation takes precedence.
Ahh, but Wiz, the manufacturers do not call for metal clips, they ask for support at prescribed distances, do they not?
But plastic ones would not support Gregc.
Actually they would support the cable correctly, right up to the point they melt :)
The point I feel most people are missing is not the supporting of the cable that is the issue, its keeping the cable in the correct position in a fire condition to prevent it weakening and failing, the 1 metre spacings are almost as bad as no metal clips at all under those circumstance imo.
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Greg
Like plastic clips a piece of string would support a cable right up to the point when it is burnt through.
Is "supporting the cable" and "keeping it in the correct position in the event of a fire" not the same?
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Personally I can't see how a cable metal tied every meter is going to significantly move ....
If it's that fragile perhaps we should all go back to MICC........
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Personally I can't see how a cable metal tied every meter is going to significantly move ....
If it's that fragile perhaps we should all go back to MICC........
Metal conduit and saddles it is then!
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.........And does this then mean that even "enhanced" cable is no better than standard if it isn't clipped properly??
I would suggest that either cable has the potential not to meet it's specified abilities if it is not installed strictly in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.
If the manufacturer's recommendations are to a higher standard than the BS (or any other) recommendation then the manufacturer's recommendation takes precedence.
Ahh, but Wiz, the manufacturers do not call for metal clips, they ask for support at prescribed distances, do they not?
Ahhh but Greg C, the BS asks for fixings equal to the fire resistance of the cable. As I said 'If the manufacturer's recommendations are to a higher standard than the BS (or any other) recommendation then the manufacturer's recommendation takes precedence. I said if, so if it doesn't, then BS rules!!!!!
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.........And does this then mean that even "enhanced" cable is no better than standard if it isn't clipped properly??
I would suggest that either cable has the potential not to meet it's specified abilities if it is not installed strictly in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.
If the manufacturer's recommendations are to a higher standard than the BS (or any other) recommendation then the manufacturer's recommendation takes precedence.
Ahh, but Wiz, the manufacturers do not call for metal clips, they ask for support at prescribed distances, do they not?
Ahhhhhhh but GregC. Now you're making things up! I never ever said that the manufacturers call for anything in particular.
In fact, that is often the problem!
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It's amazing, that when we install we use metal every 1 metre and plastic at intervals between that, and this is always approved by LPS1014 when we are audited. Yet there are still so many opinions on this, probably why we see so many variants in installation methods. It's interesting to see others points of views.
It could be the auditors have actually ascertained the precise type and manufacture of the cable you have used and have checked that your fixing method/spacings is appropriate to the manufacturer's instructions for that type of cable.
Alternatively, the auditors haven't got a clue about the type of cable and it's fixing requirements and have just thought 'that doesn't look obviously wrong (i.e only plastic ties etc), so I'll assume it is o.k.'
It wouldn't surprise me if it was the latter, because I've found that most cable manufacturers provide scant information about fixing their cables.
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It's amazing, that when we install we use metal every 1 metre and plastic at intervals between that, and this is always approved by LPS1014 when we are audited. Yet there are still so many opinions on this, probably why we see so many variants in installation methods. It's interesting to see others points of views.
It could be the auditors have actually ascertained the precise type and manufacture of the cable you have used and have checked that your fixing method/spacings is appropriate to the manufacturer's instructions for that type of cable.
Alternatively, the auditors haven't got a clue about the type of cable and it's fixing requirements and have just thought 'that doesn't look obviously wrong (i.e only plastic ties etc), so I'll assume it is o.k.'
It wouldn't surprise me if it was the latter, because I've found that most cable manufacturers provide scant information about fixing their cables.
I wouldn't be suprised if it was the latter either. What seems just a basic concept has really unearthed a can of worms
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This is my point exactly.
Everyone has a slightly different opinion, why not just put it in the standard "only metal clipsor fixings are to be used at spacings not exceeding 12 inches".
No more confusion.
Thomas, as I previously said, a rigid recommendation unfairly disallows those cable manufacturers whose cable works correctly with fixing spacings every 1m instead of your suggested rigidly prescribed 12 inches.
The BS recommendation is perfectly well written.
It is up to the various cable manufacturers to fully and properly advise installers what type and spacing of fixing is required to meet the specified fire resistance.
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Having looked at a few data sheets from different cable manufacturers, for their types of cables (including the large manufacturers) the recommend the use of metal every 300mm H and 400mm V. So this throws it all open, something which I have'nt realised, and stuck to the BS recommendation in the past. Something which I think I will have to look into a bit deeper now
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I think generally we all know if for example when clipping toslab we would use metal P clips for example and in trunking etc we still have to provide clips.
When installing on metal baskets you're going to get the support from the basket, so one would assume metal tie wrap every metre in this case.
When we should look at the manufacturers recommendations would be if installing on the side or underneath of metal baskets which is quite often the case. Where the majority of installs I see they would have metal every 1m with plastic at intervals. This would be the time to strongly take into consideration the manufacturers recommendations in providing full metal table ties within intervals also.
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If the cable is laid in basket so that the basket evenly supports the cable, I would say plastic ties would be suitable for "dressing" of the cables, metal not needed.
In slab/direct to wall/MMT2 type conduit, p clips every 300/400
The metal wraps only really apply to where the cable is "suspended" under a tray or attached to a metal conduit or other structual part of the building that is not likely to be affected by 30 mins of fire damage.
PS a smiley at the end of a sentence means I am being sarcastic ;)
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Having looked at a few data sheets from different cable manufacturers, for their types of cables (including the large manufacturers) the recommend the use of metal every 300mm H and 400mm V. So this throws it all open, something which I have'nt realised, and stuck to the BS recommendation in the past. Something which I think I will have to look into a bit deeper now
Big_Fella, do they actually 'recommend the use of metal or just state the required fixing spacings? Two very different things.
Surely, the only recommendation in BS is to ensure the cable fixings are of similar fire resistance as the cable and don't recommend any fixing spacings?
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They are actually recommending metal fixings, spaced at those distances. Thats from two manufacturers for their cables. Others may be different.
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They are actually recommending metal fixings, spaced at those distances. Thats from two manufacturers for their cables. Others may be different.
So you have done exactly what BS is basically alluding to i.e checking the specific manufacturers advice. Everyone should do the same for any cable they may use and not rely on non-specific advice, what they did with another cable last week, general rumours or over-the-fence gossip!
And because BS hasn't included specific fixing distance recommendations, when I invent my cable that meets the BS fire resistance recommendations but with fixings at 1m spacings, I can then sell it as a cost-effective alternative without being restricted by any over-specific BS recommendation!
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Wiz, isnt that just good old fashioned pyro?
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Speaking of which............
Is pyro always red?
Seen some orange cabling which looks the same
davo
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It was/probably still is available in many colours.
Orange used to be for Emergency Lights I think.
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The covered MICC (pyro) cable (also described as 'served MICC' or 'MICV', I believe) is primarily meant for use in harsh environments. The copper covering of bare MICC will obviously be affected by dampness etc and the plastic cover reduces this liklihood. I've seen orange, white and red coverings. Orange, I think was the original colour. When othercolours were produced then red was often normally used for fire alarms and white for other low-voltage systems. However, I don't ever remember there being any precise recommendations on which colour had to be used with any particular type of system.
I'm sure many old-timers who still have their ringing tools will add to/correct the above :)
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Wiz, isnt that just good old fashioned pyro?
No, if it was I would have called it pyro and it wouldn't have been a new invention.
You should know that pyro is more expensive and harder to work with than the newer flexible fire resistant cables.
My invention is, as previously stated, a flexible fire resistant cable at the same costs as existing flexible fire resisting cable but with more widely spaced fixing requirements.
My invention will be available some time in the future, just after the time that I have actually invented it.
Now, leave my invention alone and get back to considering just why you forgot how to code XP95 call points after 10 years of practice :D
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It was great when red pyro came out as I used to hate tracing faults in National Trust properties.You'd lift the floorboards and it was just a maze of orange pyro - everything was wired in it!!
With regards to the dil switches on the Apollo's,why can't they just make ON as ON and OFF as OFF (although it was worse in the series 90 days when ON was ON in the heads but OFF on the MCP's!!).
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Use a cable designed for the job not a cable designed to comply with a standard was what I was once told.
Just came back from a site we are commissioning, electrical contractor has decided not to use the knockouts but to make a large 50-60mm hole in the back, now no room for the batteries, also the mains enters in the same opening, in twin and earth, checked behind the unswitched spur and yep, twin and earth.
Email has been sent, now just waiting for the arguments to start as to why its non compliant.....
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.....With regards to the dil switches on the Apollo's,why can't they just make ON as ON and OFF as OFF (although it was worse in the series 90 days when ON was ON in the heads but OFF on the MCP's!!).
Buzz, the reason for this is that Apollo coding is actually done by turning switches off instead of on (as you might otherwise assume from the normal way of thinking about binary coding)
When you take the pip out of the base coding card this allows the 'bobble' switch on the actual XP95 detector not to press in, when the detector is inserted in the base. So, in fact, the detector 'bobble' switches are left switched off. i.e switch turned 'off' for coding.
Unfortunately, the actual DIL switches, bought in by Apollo for use on mcps and interfaces, are pre-marked on and off by the manufacturer and this confuses people. If you are going to read what is written on the bought-in DIL switches, remember OFF is the address coding position!
Simples! (but only if you are a meerkat) ???
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.......also the mains enters in the same opening, in twin and earth, checked behind the unswitched spur and yep, twin and earth.
Email has been sent, now just waiting for the arguments to start as to why its non compliant.....
Just put it down as a variation on your BS5839 Part 1 2002 + A2 2008 certificate, and let them try to prove you wrong.
Simples!
(I'll have to try to stop saying that - those damned meerkats have invaded my thought processes)
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Email has been sent, now just waiting for the arguments to start as to why its non compliant.....
oh happy days. been there so many times i get bored of arguing with them now.
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Use a cable designed for the job not a cable designed to comply with a standard was what I was once told.
Just came back from a site we are commissioning, electrical contractor has decided not to use the knockouts but to make a large 50-60mm hole in the back, now no room for the batteries, also the mains enters in the same opening, in twin and earth, checked behind the unswitched spur and yep, twin and earth.
Email has been sent, now just waiting for the arguments to start as to why its non compliant.....
Would have loved to see him do this with mineral cable .
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No, if it was I would have called it pyro and it wouldn't have been a new invention.
You should know that pyro is more expensive and harder to work with than the newer flexible fire resistant cables.
My invention is, as previously stated, a flexible fire resistant cable at the same costs as existing flexible fire resisting cable but with more widely spaced fixing requirements.
My invention will be available some time in the future, just after the time that I have actually invented it.
Now, leave my invention alone and get back to considering just why you forgot how to code XP95 call points after 10 years of practice :D
Might i suggest you cut up some old metal coat hangers, straighten them out and insert through the cable to provide a bit ot rigidity.... that or dip the drum in viagra solution prior to installation.....!!
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Email has been sent, now just waiting for the arguments to start as to why its non compliant.....
oh happy days. been there so many times i get bored of arguing with them now.
Graham, I've been speaking with Greg C about this situation. Why get into an argument with these sort of people? If you are right then you have nothing to argue about. Let them prove you wrong.
Alternatively, employ me to provide an independent assessment. Both you and the other party pay me £1,000 each in advance for my assessment. Only the one who is right receieves their payment back with my independent assessment!
I would guess both you and Greg C are likely to get your money back each time.
If the other party are not prepared to risk the £1,000 then they have no real belief in their argument with you.
Simples! (damn, done it again)
I hope I have thought this new money-making process through properly. This time next year I'll be a miyion air.
p.s. I've got all these crazy ideas today because I'm feeling lucky. Proved a County Court judge wrong earlier today and then came home today to find that I'd won three £25 prizes on the Premium Bonds!
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No, if it was I would have called it pyro and it wouldn't have been a new invention.
You should know that pyro is more expensive and harder to work with than the newer flexible fire resistant cables.
My invention is, as previously stated, a flexible fire resistant cable at the same costs as existing flexible fire resisting cable but with more widely spaced fixing requirements.
My invention will be available some time in the future, just after the time that I have actually invented it.
Now, leave my invention alone and get back to considering just why you forgot how to code XP95 call points after 10 years of practice :D
Might i suggest you cut up some old metal coat hangers, straighten them out and insert through the cable to provide a bit ot rigidity.... that or dip the drum in viagra solution prior to installation.....!!
Great idea David! I can now use my £75 windfall to buy a stack of used coat hangers and unused viagra!