Cheers Wiz - i must admit your right on open protocol - i recently replaced an old TANN system in a nursing home (200+ detectors) - using a MORLEY panel and Hotchiki Detectors
without any problems ( apart from 2 x pyros being slightly down ),
Without the risk of going into a long winded battle - im a bit stuck - with risk of me repeating myself at what part is RAFIKI wrong they keep assuring me the equipment does meet BS and that the panel does everything mentioned on the spec, i downloaded earlier - with theexception of the extended first stage part,
The point i keep harping on about is should the spec mention prolonged first stage - because
if i had known i would have quoted for a more expensive system.
I dont believe in cutting corners - the system i put in used only 8 detectors ( and that was over the top)
I am not looking for anyone to agree with me if im wrong - but is it a variation or not
Many thanks
Ron
Ron,
I apologise if I have not explained this clearly enough on the numerous occasions I have previously explained it.
Rafiki are telling you that their panel complies with the BS for control and indicating equipment i.e. it is designed and manufactured to the recommendations of that Standard. Furthermore, it has been designed for possible use in both Part 1 and Part 6installations.
Please note that generally an installation is designed and installed to either Part 1 or Part 6, but not both. However this Rafiki panel has functions that will allow it to be used in either type of installation.
Your project's specification asked for a specific function that could only be complied with on this rafiki panel, by invoking one of the functions available for use in a Part 6 installation, but, by doing so, also meant that it could now no longer comply with Part 1 i.e it now had an automatic reset of an alarm condition on stage one.
Since your project specification asked for this function but also asked for compliance with Part 1, what you provided, did not meet the specification
Other control panels could probably have provided this required function, without the automatic reset, and therefore would have complied with Part 1.
The specification did not ask for what you are calling a 'prolonged first stage'. I don't even know where this phrase comes from. In typical two stage systems that could comply with Part 1, there is a time limit before stage one automatically changes to stage two or that stage two is immediate if a second fire condition occurs. There is never an automatic reset of stage one in Part 1 systems.
There is no Variation required if the system meets the BS. The problem your system has in complying with Part 1 of the BS could have been accepted as a Variation if all relevant parties agreed to it. Obviously they won't, so you have a problem.
Did Rafiki mislead you by saying that their control panel complied with BS? Probably not! - It is designed and manufactured to the BS for control and indicating equipment and could be used in standard Part 1 and Part 6 installations.
Was it possible for the Rafiki panel to meet the requirements of your project's specification and also the recommendations of Part 1? It appears that it can't or someone would have done something about it by now!
Did someone sell you the 'wrong' equipment for this project? Possibly! If you had shown the project specification to someone and got confirmation that the proposed equipment would definitely meet the specification, then they have been proven wrong!
Ron, I am not taking sides on this. I am just trying to explain it in a way that will be argued by 'the other side' if you try to fight it on the information you have so far provided. I have some sympathy for you. I owned an installation company for 17 years, so I've been through these sorts of problems myself. It taught me to get any promises being made to me in writing. Generally nowdays, the only person who catches me out by not complying with promises previously made, is my wife!
