Fire Extinguisher ID Signs

[hammer1]

I agree with Colin Todd on this.....once the risk assessment points to the need for an extinguisher as a control measure....then if you can't see it it will need a sign....if you can it won't. Staff, if trained to use then will know where they are. Oh for the good old days of a BGCP with extinguishers forming a firepoint!

If you cannot see the extinguisher how on earth are you going to see the sign located just above?

[The Reiver]

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS
1996 No. 341
HEALTH AND SAFETY
The Health and Safety (Safety Signs and Signals) Regulations 1996
Made
18th February 1996
Laid before Parliament
23rd February 1996
Coming into force
1st April 1996
The Secretary of State in the exercise of the powers conferred on him by sections 15(1), (2), (3)(a) and (c) and (9) and 82(3)(a) of, and paragraphs 1(1), (3) and (4), 9, 12 and 14 of Schedule 3 to, the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974(1) (?the 1974 Act?) and of all other powers enabling him in that behalf and for the purpose of giving effect without modifications to proposals submitted to him by the Health and Safety Commission under section 11(2)(d) of the 1974 Act, after the carrying out by the said Commission of consultations in accordance with section 50(3) of that Act, hereby makes the following Regulations
PART IV

MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR THE IDENTIFICATION AND LOCATION OF FIRE-FIGHTING EQUIPMENT
1.    Preliminary remark
   This Part applies to equipment used exclusively for fire-fighting purposes.
   Fire-fighting equipment must be identified by using a specific colour for the equipment and placing a location signboard, and by using a specific colour for the places where such equipment is kept, or their access points.
   The colour for identifying this equipment is red.
   The red area must be sufficiently large to allow the equipment to be identified easily.
   The signboards provided for in paragraph 3.5 of Part II must be used to mark the locations of this equipment

3.5. Fire-fighting signs
Intrinsic features:
   Rectangular or square shape
   White pictogram on a red background (the red part to take up at least 50% of the area of the sign)
   
Can't see any 'where necessary'. Can only see 'must'

The extra graphics & text such as type of extinguisher and what it can and can't be used on is not required.

EC Safety Signs Directive 92/58/EEC states the same too.

[kurnal]

The guidance to the regulations L64 gives further guidance on when signs are needed. In respect of signboards for example paragraph 103 page 25 states that where the equipment is predominantly red there may be no need to colour the background red as well. In respect of fire fighting signs paragraph 104 states that if for any reason fire fighting equipment is placed in a position hidden from direct view, indicate its location using appropriate directional arrows together with the relevant fire fighting equipment sign.

The guidance to the Regulations L64 is issued by the HSE and states if you follow the guidance you will normally be doing enough to comply with the Law ( page ii) 

[AnthonyB]

If we knew we were going to end up signing everything anyway we should have kept the old BS5423 colour coding instead of making everything red with tiny symbols on.....

[colin todd]

... and why did they ever get did of CTC, eh Tony?  Those were the days.

[Owain]

... and why did they ever get did of CTC, eh Tony?  Those were the days.

I think my mum's still got a Junior Pyrene in the kitchen. It's at least as old as I am.

[AnthonyB]

No one I have ever come across (& I mean the general public and employees most likely to use the extinguishers) has ever seen the sense in the change and all liked the full colouring.

And the symbols don't go down very well either, some people come up with some interesting interpretations of what the symbols are of!

But at least it reinforces the need for training (& flogging loads of ID signs....)

Why did they move away from CTC? It was great to get grease ink and oil stains out of clothing (as long as it wasn't that pesky pink dyed stuff!) 

[Owain]

Why did they move away from CTC?

Unfortunately it does nasty things to kidneys, liver, central nervous system, and might cause cancer. (paraphrased from wikipedia).

[kurnal]

Yes it was widely used in the radio repair trade in the 30s and 40s as a switch cleaner and a number of engineers fell ill and died several weeks after exposure to large volumes of the vapour. Nasty stuff. Was it ever used  as a dry cleaning agent? I seem to recall it was. I cant recall if  it's peer methyl bromide had uses other than firefighting. It all makes halon 1211 look quite innocuous in comparison!

[colin todd]

I was actually aware of why they moved away from CTC.  It was merely a flippant reference to Tony becoming the Victor Meldrew of the extinguisher world.

And another thing, what was wrong with sand buckets eh, Tony.

[AnthonyB]

And I was joining in the banter in being flippant back ,I know all the hazards of CTC (along with the fact it wasn't actually that effective!)

If we accept that we have to put signs up, then we can move onto the next common question.......

MUST you put extinguishers on brackets or stands?

(M&S never have and still don't, probably the one exception amongst big companies, but interesting non the less. They held off with extinguisher ID & call signs for longer than most as well, sticking with their long standing red disc and rectangle system)

[lancsfirepro]

If we knew we were going to end up signing everything anyway we should have kept the old BS5423 colour coding instead of making everything red with tiny symbols on.....

Maybe if we come out of Europe we can go back to proper colour coding. 

[colin todd]

and Routemaster buses.  What was wrong with them.  Did anyone ever fall off the open platform.

[colin todd]

Eh oop, Gazza the Coal, where have you been.

[lancsfirepro]

Never far away Colin.  Always watching, keeping a beady eye...