Fire Extinguisher ID Signs

[chrpay]

CLG Guidance Note on Enforcement Article 13 Para 72 states "Any non-automatic fire-fi ghting equipment must be easily accessible and, where necessary, indicated by signs."

That's good enough for me!

[nearlythere]

CLG Guidance Note on Enforcement Article 13 Para 72 states "Any non-automatic fire-fi ghting equipment must be easily accessible and, where necessary, indicated by signs."

That's good enough for me!

How do you deal with the "where necessary" bit chrpay?

[chrpay]

By the risk assessment

[chrpay]

“Where necessary”
27. The European Workplace Directive (89/654/EEC), in the preliminary note (paragraph 1)
to the Annex, states that:
“the obligations laid down in this Annex apply whenever required by the features of
the workplace, the activity, the circumstances or a hazard.”

[chrpay]

I agree with Colin Todd on this.....once the risk assessment points to the need for an extinguisher as a control measure....then if you can't see it it will need a sign....if you can it won't. Staff, if trained to use then will know where they are. Oh for the good old days of a BGCP with extinguishers forming a firepoint!

[nearlythere]

....then if you can't see it it will need a sign....if you can it won't.

One of the recommendations of a sign is to identify where an extinguisher and the type should be so  if it is missing it will be obvious to all and sundry.

If a sign is provided as the extinguisher can't be seen, how will the sign help? How will a sign tell you if it is missing or not?

Just a thought chrpay. 

[Mike Buckley]

If the fire extinguisher is concealed i.e. in a cupboard or similar then it will need signage to show people where it is. You will need to open the cupboard to check that it is there.

If the fire extinguisher is on the wall then to a large extent it would be its own sign provided it is there. If there is nothing there how can you tell something is missing?

[Tom Sutton]

If there is nothing there how can you tell something is missing?

The brackets or stand could be a clue.

[Mike Buckley]

The brackets or stand could be a clue.

Agreed but go back in the thread how do you tell if the bracket is empty because the extinguisher has gone AWOL or because it has been moved and no-one has removed the bracket?

[nearlythere]

The brackets or stand could be a clue.

Agreed but go back in the thread how do you tell if the bracket is empty because the extinguisher has gone AWOL or because it has been moved and no-one has removed the bracket?

Same with a sign?

[Tom Sutton]

Agreed but go back in the thread how do you tell if the bracket is empty because the extinguisher has gone AWOL or because it has been moved and no-one has removed the bracket?

If you cannot get them to remove the bracket, then your risk assessment would require a sign indicating it has been relocated. My point has always been, its all about risk assessment and you only need to put signs where necessary and not because a British standard tells you to.

In most situations signs are not required but on the rare occasions they are, fit one.

[AnthonyB]

"you need an extinguisher ID sign to tell what type it is/so you select the right one/many similar reasons"

Strangely BSEN3 has strict labelling requirements so that people can readily identify what fires it is suitable for and with the exception of small powders the pictograms and colour coding on the actual extinguishers are far bigger & clearer than the ones on the ID signs.

When Signs International were still going they produced an handy little adhesive sign that went behind the extinguisher stating it was missing, had a fair bit of popularity in some sectors in the days before extinguisher ID signs became common (which was around the change to red extinguishers with BSEN3)

[Psuedonym]

...Not forgetting that the client pays for an engineer - sorry, Technician, to install the correct piece of kit to cover the presented hazards. So.....do we still need signs?
IMO Yes of course. They are there to offer advice on what to use the unit on and what not to use it on.
Then again...if the staff have had their mandatory training .. or its a visitor to a site for example, they can stop. Read all the info and make a decision based upon the id sign advice.
Simple really!   

[nearlythere]

Are extinguishers provided for visitors to use?

[AnthonyB]

"They are there to offer advice on what to use the unit on and what not to use it on."

Because the extinguisher doesn't??

Arguably they add nothing that doesn't already have to exist in the extinguisher labelling.

They can help spot a missed extinguisher or one not clearly visible, but so can other means and signs.

Nice little earner though with some of the mark up on them I've seen!