Recent co-op court case

[Pip]

If you don't know about it(and want to) go here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/7002596.stm

[nearlythere]

Was there a risk assessment carried out and the significant findings ignored?

[Andy Cole]

I believe alot of CO OP stores also own and rent out attached residential properties, specifically in rural areas!, anyone else come across this sort of thing?

[Ashley Wood]

The Co op in Southwold - suffolk has recently been served an enforcement notice!

[Ken Taylor]

Notable that it took a 'member of the public' to report the failures in order to uncover the extent of the breaches of legislation in 38 stores in the County. This must emphasise the need for regular inspection by the FRS for this type of premises. I wonder whether they have now verified the Co-op's claim to have now put things right.

[Chris Houston]

See also:

http://www.sloughobserver.co.uk/live/stories/story.php?story_id=2629

http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/detail.asp?id=222

http://www.cieh.org/ehn/legal/2006/september/articles/co-op_fined_after_employee_suffers_injuries.htm

[Dinnertime Dave]

This must emphasise the need for regular inspection by the FRS for this type of premises.

So do I carry out these regular inspections before I visit hotels, residential care premises, sheltered housing schemes, HMO`s or boarding schools? All of which in my opinion present a potentially greater risk.

I accept in this case the company appears to have shown a total lack of responsibility to its customers and staff and deserved all that it has got. But would your suggestion be the best use of resources. Unfortunately inspecting officers do rely on the public to make complaints and when they do we react.

[jokar]

All FRS have a Risk Based Inspection Process based on IRMP Guidance Note 4 and the National Framework Document thats sits alongside the Fire and Rescue Service Act 2004.  As much as we would all like premises to be subject to inspection that is not the Enforcement Role under the legislation.  The Police do not inspect every vehicle and those in charge must take responsibility and accountability for there actions or lack of action.  The HSE operate on the same basis and still incidents occur.  Blame should not be given to FRS for the modernisation of legislation and the Fire Service.

The surprising thing is that even the Consultant on the Inside Out BBC SW programme got it wrong.

[Ken Taylor]

I'm not seeking to blame the under-resourced FRS and do appreciate the need for prioritisation. Doesn't this sort of situation indicate a need for more staff, more pro-active involvement and the need for emphasis upon workplaces and public premises where large numbers of persons resort?  Management accountability through risk assessment is fine but without the likelihood of visits and checks by the FRS can lead to inactivity or continuing ignorance. Having to wait for a complaint or a fire cannot be good.

[Chris Houston]

The Police do not inspect every vehicle

I think your comments are all factually correct, but the above is not comparing apples with apples.  If there were vehicles on the road that could have a 1,000 passengers (I say this because this is how many customers a large supermarket could have at 1 time), I'm pretty sure they would get a regular safety check.

I think most people who visit workplaces on a regular basis were asked, the majority would agree that places like supermarkets, schools, carehomes, hotels are worthy of fire service inspections.

[jokar]

In that case the Government need to fund more Inspectors for all the enforcing authorities.  The sheer number of premises that would require a visit on a daily basis would make this an impossibility.  Do not forget that the RR(FS)O is about premises, this is not a builidng, it could be 30 premises within one premises.  With on average an inspection and the resultant paperwork taking the best part of a day for each premises, this one premises could take 1 FSO 6 weeks to complete.  The CFOA Audit form is 13 pages long and has to be completed on each and every occasion.  Thankfully I do not have to do it but know many others that do and it is a complicated process.

[Chris Houston]

You've lost me a bit there.  Why would a supermarket take 6 weeks and not a day?

[jokar]

I was not writing about the Co op, just comments on one premises with 30 premises in it.  I was trying to give an indication of how difficult it is out there for enforcers.  A number of FRS and other enforcers have a limited amount of FSO's who do a number of roles from enforcing the RR(FS)O to undertaking Consulations with Local Authorities for Building Regulations.  With limited numbers of personnel they can only do so much.

[Chris Houston]

If only our government put as much resource into this as they do to catch those who speed or park illegally..........

[Ken Taylor]

Insufficient provision and increased bureaucracy seem to have become the trends with Government policy - not just with the FRS but, police, education, health, local government, legal system, prison service, etc - but are things getting better?. The voices of those suffering the consequences need to be heard.