Smoke alarms 'v' Operational training

[Rich]

Is anyone else out there fed up with doing home fire safety checks and fitting smoke alarms?  Now I'm not saying for a moment that they are without doubt the best device on the market for giving people an early warning of a fire, but it is carrying out these checks that is now at the expense of operational training.  Because we have targets to meet  - 60 HFSC's a month, with a minimum of 4 visits to 'get in each property via cold calling - yes door knocking at all times of the day and evening our training is suffering.  The powers at be are only interested in how many smoke alarms we have fitted, they don't seem bothered that our IPDS (training records) haven't been signed off.  

Is this common across the country or are my 'managers' extracting the urine?

[dinosaw]

Rich you are quite right. Worthy though it is, ops crews should be busy contingency planning, training etc not sticking detectors on ceilings.

[Chris Houston]

Forgive my non fire service ignorance, but if the government really cared only about the distribution of smoke alarms to those who need it, would there not be a most cost effective and efficient means of doing so than tying up the resources of highly trained fire fighters?  Seems a bit odd to me, as an outsider.........

[kurnal]

Chris this is the fire brigade you are talking about. They are masters at managing crisis- but crisis management abounds.
The Government says jump and many managers eager to win their brownie points say yes sir how high rather than looking for others to do the jumping for them.  

That is a general observation - there are pockets of excellent lateral thinking and partnerships in operation.

[Tony]

We must have a more brutal government.  Law was passed saying all residences must have at least one smoke alarm - owners then had to go out and do it.  There was some assistance offered to the elderly, but with most of the State being covered by volunteers there's no way that we could get out and do inspections/installations!  To have career FF's spending a lot of time out doing this seems to me to be a waste.  Are your retained firies expected to do this sort of thing too?  Following up a direct request from some elderly or impaired person, that's a different thing.

One of the things we have to report on after a fire is, were alarms installed and working?  OK, often for the working side we're just checking for a batery in the remains of an alarm...  I've wondered what the insurance companies do when we say 'no alarm' or 'no battery'?

[messy]

Chris this is the fire brigade you are talking about. They are masters at managing crisis- but crisis management abounds.
The Government says jump and many managers eager to win their brownie points say yes sir how high rather than looking for others to do the jumping for them.  

.

Unfortunately the Principle Managers within the fire service have arrived in post where - as Kurnal says- historically you don't question what comes down from above.

However it is these officers who are the only ones who could say no to some of the Govt's antics, but often they are usually coming towards the end of their careers.

With a big fat pension just around the corner they are in the worst possible position to make waves. (And who can blame them?)

Perhaps with the current trend for non service senior management who will not be able to grab their pensions until they're 6o+, there might be a little backbone shown in the future

[Benfire]

To have career FF's spending a lot of time out doing this seems to me to be a waste.  Are your retained firies expected to do this sort of thing too?

Home fire safety was mentioned at my drill night yesterday, we're going to be given the training in the next month or so, then be expected to do 4 per week...

[lincoln]

My local retained certainly carry out smoke alarm fitting and home safety checks. They also get involved with activly encouraging local people to have a check and smoke alarm fitted - promoting this service at local events, posting items in local papers etc.

[Tony]

My local retained certainly carry out smoke alarm fitting and home safety checks. They also get involved with activly encouraging local people to have a check and smoke alarm fitted - promoting this service at local events, posting items in local papers etc.

And this is as far as we go.  Pushing out the message whenever we do any community work, the good old "Smoke Alarms Save Lives".  We'll do the installation if needed, but we try to direct people who need help to the community Service organisations (Lions, Rotary) as they're happy to help.  So far I haven't installed any (as a fire, that is).

[jokar]

Not only do Brigades fir these themselves but some Brigades enter into financial partnerships to get other groups to do this for them as an addition.  Cost management does not seem to be part of the equation.

[jokar]

Messy, surely you are not saying that Principal managers are inverterbrates are you?

[dinosaw]

Well spotted Chris. Unfortunately the whole process is a box ticking exercise to keep the auditors at bay and score a few brownie points for senior management. If there was a tick box for operational planning things would change. Domestic detectors could be fited by any number of trained people at half the cost and twice the amount, freeing up operational people to get on with the job they should be doing.

[Chris Houston]

Well, someone (senior management) should have the courage to say "no" there are better ways to do this.

[Redone]

Well spotted Chris. Unfortunately the whole process is a box ticking exercise to keep the auditors at bay and score a few brownie points for senior management. If there was a tick box for operational planning things would change. Domestic detectors could be fited by any number of trained people at half the cost and twice the amount, freeing up operational people to get on with the job they should be doing.

Like visiting local risks to gather info on premises that might prove useful in a fire!

[fireftrm]

If there was a tick box for operational planning things would change............are you really that out of touch with the job description and requirements of a modern day firefighter?

There is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is called the Firefighter role map, unit FF6, elements 6.1 and 6.2