Author Topic: Guest house  (Read 95209 times)

Davo

  • Guest
Guest house
« Reply #120 on: October 10, 2008, 08:45:14 PM »
Davidrh
Did you happen to mention where you got the advice?
I just wonder if your guy has got a hidden agenda.
Certainly his common sense is hidden!


These guys have hundreds nay thousands of years in. Its rare they are at polar opposites. The only way to get one opinion is to hire one RA.


davo

Offline Izan FSO

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Guest house
« Reply #121 on: October 10, 2008, 09:59:37 PM »
Quote from: Davidrh
Reading all the comments on this forum it seems that the situation is that the RP has no choice but to use an advisor.
In an earlier posting I bulked about my local fire brigade requesting smoke seals on my forty hotel bedroom doors.
I got lots of (I though good) advise from you folk and composed a response to the local senior fire officer who visited my premises.
My response consisited of about 6 or 7 postings (obviously without mentioning authors or this site) (Remember I am a hotelier NOT a fireman so I am frantically looking for help anywhere I can get it)
Guess what. He totally rubished your comments and advice in each and every case ????????????????????
So going back to the RP (who has the legal responsibily..yes) getting advise from outside sources. Whose to tell that advise will be accepted by the local FO. (and in any case is relevant)
I simple do not agree with the concept of an RP as it stants at the moment
I mean do you want Richard Branson to fly the plane just because he owns the business and caused the risk ?????????????
Davidrh
i have been away from the forum for a number of weeks and i just cannnot beleive that this is thead is still going and evryeryone seems to give you the same advice but for some reason you dont want to take it.

If you are not competent GET SOMONE WHO IS!!!! dont give an inspecting officer a load of comments off a web site and and expect them to say that it is a suitable and sufficient assessment of the risks in your premises.

when you provide the IO with a suitable and sufficent assessment of the risk and i list of significant findings they will discuss your findings with you.

If you get a COMPETENT fire risk assessor to do it for you get that person to meet the IO to discuss the outcomes of the document and agree a way forward.

Offline kurnal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
    • http://www.peakland-fire-safety.co.uk
Guest house
« Reply #122 on: October 11, 2008, 08:49:04 AM »
Just had a very nice few days in a  6 storey Paris hotel.

Just a few interesting comparisons:

No fire or smoke seals on doors
No self closers on bedroom doors even in a dead end corridor
No fire detectors in rooms or in the staircases - only the corridors had smoke detection
No exit signs bigger than 25mm high
Arrows used by themselves to indicate the direction of exit. Use of up and down arrows on exit and directional signs is a total mess just like over here.

Before you get too excited David about different standards across the EU I must point oiut there are many UK hotels that dont meet our current guide standards- but I would be interested to hear from anyone who is familiar with the French standards to make comparisons.

Some good ideas over there-

The maintained emergency lighting used high intensity LEDs for the maintained lighting - not seen these before in the UK.

In some entertainment venues (no not those places Davo- I was too mean to pay £100 or so just to look at someone elses missus)  the illuminated emergency exit signs flashed on and off  from the time the doors opened until the start of the performance- very irritating but a made a very significant impact.

Every public venue had clearly displayed intervention and evacuation plans at main entrances and storey exits.

Vivre les sapeurs pompiers!

Offline Wiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1591
Guest house
« Reply #123 on: October 11, 2008, 07:39:26 PM »
Quote from: kurnal
......The maintained emergency lighting used high intensity LEDs for the maintained lighting - not seen these before in the UK.......
Plenty of versions available in U.K., Prof.

p.s. Love your new avatar! Pity it isn't wearing crocodile skin boots!

Offline nearlythere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4351
Guest house
« Reply #124 on: October 12, 2008, 10:31:40 AM »
Quote from: kurnal
No fire or smoke seals on doors
No self closers on bedroom doors even in a dead end corridor
No fire detectors in rooms or in the staircases - only the corridors had smoke detection
No exit signs bigger than 25mm high
Arrows used by themselves to indicate the direction of exit. Use of up and down arrows on exit and directional signs is a total mess just like over here.
Are you advising Davo the average B&B operator in the UK should consider bring their premises up to this standard Kurnal?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Midland Retty

  • Guest
Guest house
« Reply #125 on: October 14, 2008, 10:34:46 AM »
Just as a point of intrest, leading on from Kurnal's earlier post above.

Ive just come back from my hols in Menorca. I've been to the island many times before, but was amazed this time around at how many safety upgrades haven taken place in the hotels, bars, restaurants and shops (in terms of both fire safety and general health and safety)

I was suprised to find our apartment block had AFD to L2 standard, an emergency lighting system whose coverage seemed near as damn it to BS 5266 (it too had high intensity LEDs by the way).

The fire action notices were pretty good, exit signs were generally in all the right places, protected routes were just that, magnetic hold open devices were used wherever possible in corridors instead of the Menocian door wedge, cupboards were kept lock shut etc etc.

No strips or seals on the fire doors mind you.

European Directives must be having an affect - improved safety seems to be rolling out in atleast some parts of the EU.

Offline afterburner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
Guest house
« Reply #126 on: October 14, 2008, 10:43:20 AM »
MR you could well be right, we're just back off an American owned / operated cruise ship which flogs around the Mediterranean for the summer and the interesting thing was the application of Euro type colouring and pictograms on the safety signage (including the fire safety signs) instead of the usual red US variety. Maybe they like the green signs better or maybe their is some sort of compliance / conformity issue at work in European waters. Nice to see improving standards all the same.

Offline Big T

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
Guest house
« Reply #127 on: October 14, 2008, 12:34:35 PM »
This wanton moaning about the RRO is a bit old hat frankly. Get over it. It's here, it's not going anywhere and if it makes some of the hotel death traps any safer then it has to be a good thing.

Read the guides, go to a free seminar (there are tons) and have a go at writing your own assessment using you probably, once prevelant common sense.

Like it or not, intumescent strips and smoke seals are the best thing to be installed into your hotel and you should be making a conserted effort to progressively upgrade the safety in your hotel. A risk assessment may be able to justify a prolonged period to get the work done, but no assessor would suggest there is no requirement to upgrade the place eventually.

Midland Retty

  • Guest
Guest house
« Reply #128 on: October 14, 2008, 01:30:35 PM »
David

I do sympathise with your situation, however I'm afraid "That's Life" as they say.  You are in charge of your business, and therefore you must take responsibility for it. (Which I'm sure you do, Im just giving you the legal viewpoint rather than making a personal  judgement about you)

It's time to put the issue to bed. The members on this forum can't change the law, they are not policy makers,

Many people have given you good advice. Why not put that advice into practice and try to action some of the suggestions made. And if you have problems during a particular stage or step come back to us for further advice.

Risk assessment is not rocket science and the government guides out there do explain the basic principles of fire risk assessment and fire safety. Have you read them? If not give it a go.

If you dont feel confident to undertake a fire risk assessment or manage your fire precautions, you will need to employ a competent person to do it for you, such as fire safety consultant or fire risk assessor. There is no way round that I'm afraid.

Your local fire safety department / centre will give you further advice on how to select a competent assessor / consultant.

Davidrh I'm can appreciate why this is all very frustrating for you, Im sure there are millions of other things you have got to worry about, Im sure that you could do without having to pay for someone to look at your fire precautions for you. But once you grab the bull by the horns it won't take a great deal of time (or money if done properly) to sort out.

The whole idea of self regulation is for you as a Responsible Person to get to grips with the issue of fire safety. Not only does it avoid prescription  which the corporate world wanted to get away from but it also creates opportunity for people like you to educate themselves about fire safety and why it is needed.

If you don't want prescription but do want self regulation then you have to accept that you can't effectively self assess or self regulate something that you don't understand. With the greatest of respect its evident you don't fully understand. And I don't expect you to, what Im trying to point out is your lack of knowledge is contributing to your frustrations.

Read the guides do a little bit of homework and Im sure you will see that your fire safety responsibilities are not as bad or as costly as you first thought they would be. You don't need to become a fire safety expert, you just need a general appreciation of what is required and why.

The only alternative would be to revert to a prescriptive approach where fire authorities hit you over the head with a guide book telling you that you MUST do this, that you MUST do that etc etc. As we know this is not what businesses want.

So it can only be one way or the other.

Now be off with you and I dont want to see you post on this thread until you have completed a fire risk assessment yourself. Seriously try it yourself first  - give it fair chance - and I bet you won't find it that daunting.

Davo

  • Guest
Guest house
« Reply #129 on: October 15, 2008, 09:44:05 AM »
MR

That holiday of yours has certainly chilled you out.


davo

Offline afterburner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
Guest house
« Reply #130 on: October 15, 2008, 10:32:01 AM »
MR

your post absolutely says it all, especially the last paragraph.

Offline Davidrh

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
Guest house
« Reply #131 on: October 15, 2008, 04:09:43 PM »
Done that MR (all of it) and got the tea shirt.
I still say its a nonsense.
and I, for one, am much more nervous about staying in hotels around the country knowing that untrained RP's are in charge...and I don't believe anyone else is if they told the truth
New government soon. Any bets on a law change on Fire Regs as well as fox hunting

Midland Retty

  • Guest
Guest house
« Reply #132 on: October 15, 2008, 04:41:13 PM »
Hi David

Why is it nonsense?.

As a B&B owner you have always had a duty of care towards your guests in various pieces of legislation (not just fire safety).

I do appreciate your argument, but its a burden that any business owner has to bare, from Mr Bloggs who owns the corner shop right up to Richard Branson of Virgin

Are you asking for the return of a prescriptive approach?

Offline Mar62

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
Guest house
« Reply #133 on: October 15, 2008, 10:27:34 PM »
Quote from: Davidrh
(Cig heil to fire twerps)
I rest my case people
Have only just seen this comment. David, if ever you have to dial treble 9 for the Fire Brigade (or other services) think about yr comment. The FRS do an unbelievable job, sometimes in the most horrible and stressful conditions! The reason why Fire Officers and the people on here give the advice they do is they dont really want to be pulling your customers out during or after a fire.
Each and every day is a learning curve and today is one of those days?

Offline Galeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 556
  • Dont ask me on here for advice , come down the Pub
Guest house
« Reply #134 on: October 15, 2008, 11:49:01 PM »
Davidrh wrote:
(Cig heil to fire twerps)
I rest my case people

Sounds like the episode of Fawlty Towers , and  I rest my case.
Its time to make a counter attack !