Author Topic: Chancing their arm?  (Read 36413 times)

Offline Galeon

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2008, 09:50:07 AM »
Then simply make it a non smoking hotel by default , no argument , you will obviously loose the smoking trade , but you can make it up in fines , win win situation .
Its time to make a counter attack !

Offline Wiz

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2008, 09:57:40 AM »
Quote from: Davidrh
Hello (I/m the hotelier)...

....We are a totally non smoking hotel.....

......I appreciate that in the case Buzzard was writing about they were allocated a smoking room ....
David,
You appear to be saying that you are the hotelier in question.

If you are, then how can you allocate a smoking room in a totally non-smoking hotel?

Offline Davidrh

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2008, 10:02:33 AM »
Hi Wiz
No...I am not the hotelier in Belfast.
I am just another independant trying to make a penny and keep to the rules

Offline nearlythere

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2008, 10:17:08 AM »
Quote from: Davidrh
Hello (I/m the hotelier)
Is it unitended consequences here.
We (hotels) are trying to enforce an army's worth of red tape including Fire regs.
As Joneseys would say "The punters don't like it"
We are a totally non smoking hotel.
I am in the process of installing Optical Smoke Detectors (instead of HD's)  as a compromise with my local brigade who originally wanted Fire Door smoke seals.
BUT.. I have to deals with guests who simple will not abide by the rules.
We have our registration contracts. We have our patrols. We change nets every week because they burn them smoking out the window. etc etc etc.
I appreciate that in the case Buzzard was writing about they were allocated a smoking room but what on earth is a hotel supposed to do (its heads you lose tails you lose)
You know something. I really do not blame any hotel for coming down hard on these people. (and as usual it is a small mindless minority. They have brains. They know they are in a hotel. They know there are smoke alarms...  THEY cause they problem THEY need to pay
Why should the rests of the gueSts have to suffer the consequences because they need A FAG
Davidrh,
I think you have missed a very important point here.

As Buzzard 905 states "She checked in and requested a smoking room with she was duly allocated.Later,she had some friends back to the room and they were smoking in her smoking room.Needless to say,the smoke detector installed in the room activated by the smoke."

Now, is there there a problem with smoking in a room in which smoking is permitted?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Midland Retty

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2008, 10:46:55 AM »
Quote from: Davidrh
Hi Wiz
No...I am not the hotelier in Belfast.
I am just another independant trying to make a penny and keep to the rules
Davidrh

Are you saying then that the young lady in question was wrong to be smoking in a dedicated smoking bedroom?

You have mentioned that its the guests who are brainless and the guests who should pay and I agree that if the guests are smoking suripticiously they should get fined, but we are talking a bout someone who had every legal right to smoke in that room.

Its NOT the lady's fault it is the hotel's.

This smells a bit fishy if I'm honest. My advice is not to pay this "fine ", inform local trading standards, contact the hotel and inform them that you are considering legal cation, that you will be going to the press, and that you have informed trading standards. Furthermore ask them to point out where in their terms and conditions it states such penalties can be occurred.

Offline CivvyFSO

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2008, 10:55:14 AM »
Quote from: Davidrh
I am just another independant trying to make a penny and keep to the rules
So you think that charging someone £1600 for smoking in a smoking room is fair?

You were quick enough to complain about the injustice of it all when the fire service asked you to upgrade your hotel to a reasonable standard of safety. Can you not see this as a huge injustice?

Also, you might find that you do not have the right to 'fine' people. A reasonable charge for cleaning the room after unscrupulous smoking, yes. A fine, no.

Chris Houston

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2008, 11:54:50 AM »
A £1,600 "fine" is monstrously unfustified for someone who appears to have done nothing wrong.  She was smoking in a smoking room, how can anyone suggest she has done anything wrong?!?!?

Offline Galeon

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2008, 12:14:11 PM »
I would like to see a breakdown of this specific charge , same a a department store being evacuated by an engineer Monday morning , we all know their was 700 pensioners in there spending £100 each - yeah right.
Its time to make a counter attack !

Offline Davidrh

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2008, 01:41:29 PM »
I agree £1600 seems a bit high. (I have no idea how the hotel came to that charge)...but I bet she will take more care next time a !!
and  how much did the hotel have to pay to re-accomodate their guests. (I have no idea but i do know that there would be some pretty unhappy people who would proable not be staying at that hotel again)
Yes, as I said I understand it was a smoking room BUT people need to use common sense. ( a long lost word in Britain today)
Do you people burn your toast at home ?? (and set off the alarms)...of course you don't
We have the laws, You folk are the experts and us poor s***s have to make it all work
Look at it from the other side ...please

Offline Galeon

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2008, 02:01:38 PM »
The young lady bought a service that quite clearly was not fit for use , quite simple better still pay by cash when you check in I always do , so they cant have you over on a credit / debit card.
So she is on her way home goes to use her card in an emergency , etc and its maximized out , without her knowing what sort of stupid , draconian measures some people come up with , when quite clearly they are in the wrong to start with.
I would liken to this as theft , end of story.
Its time to make a counter attack !

Midland Retty

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2008, 02:19:25 PM »
Davidrh

What could the lady in question have done to avoid the alarms going off? Please define what "common sense" measures the lady should have carried out to prevent this unfortunate turn of events.

I think you find all members on this forum do try to look at things from "the other side" as you put it.

We tend to be open minded folk and in the instance of guests smoking in places they shouldn't be smoking I'm all for them being penalised.

In this instance however it is not the guest's fault that the fire alarm activated despite what you say.

 I wonder if the hotel have had this problem before. If they have then they should have employed an engineer to look at why false alarms were occuring.

If it was a one off occurence then it's just bad luck, but hopefully it wil prompt the management of the hotel  to investigate the issue further before they become beseiged with false alarms and more unhappy guests. I would suggest that is common sense David!

There are procedures that can be employed to prevent false alarms becoming an inconvenience.

They include things like the a "pre fire" warning which prompts staff to go investigate cause of any possible activations.

Perhaps localised alarms in staff areas prompting them again to investigate before initating a full evacuation, all sorts

David you ask us to see things from your point of view, how about you trying to see it from the "other side " too.

Offline Wiz

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2008, 02:46:07 PM »
Quote from: Galeon
.....better still pay by cash when you check in I always do , so they cant have you over on a credit / debit card......
I have heard that there are many hotels now refusing cash payments because of security concerns raised by the government about not being able to identify guests. Maybe this is just an excuse so that hoteliers can take further payments as they see fit! I can see this becoming an important issue if more hotels are going to try this sort of scam.

I wonder if Buzzard can tell us what action the girl in question is taking to resolve the issue and, if everything reported is true, then I think we should all know the name of the hotel chain in question so that we can warn others.

Offline Dragonmaster

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2008, 03:05:52 PM »
Quote from: Davidrh
Hello (I/m the hotelier)
They know they are in a hotel. They know there are smoke alarms...  THEY cause they problem THEY need to pay
Why should the rests of the gueSts have to suffer the consequences because they need A FAG
I wish to issue a challenge to all non FRS (inc ex colleagues) to describe the visual diffence between a smoke and heat detector (in a designated smoking room). How do they know there are smoke alarms? Surely a smoking room has HD's
"Never do today what will become someone's else's responsibility tomorrow"

Offline Galeon

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2008, 03:06:29 PM »
Wiz
Yep I would agree with the card business . some of these hotels think they are an airline , but when I have I.D and walk away from the desk , they see a £ 70 - 100 going with me , they tend to crumble.
Its time to make a counter attack !

Offline nearlythere

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2008, 04:42:58 PM »
Quote from: Davidrh
Yes, as I said I understand it was a smoking room BUT people need to use common sense.
I really don't think you do understand Davidrh.

The lady asked for a bedroom she could smoke in.
She was given a room she could smoke in.
She and her friend had a smoke in the room she was permitted to smoke in.
The smoke set off the alarm.
She had £1600 stolen from her credit card by the hotel.

Now Davidrh, which part of that are you having trouble with?

I think the lady used a hell of a lot more common sense than the hotel in that she did not chance a crafty puff in the en-suite. She asked for a smoking room and that is what she was given. If it was subsequently not suitable for smoking then that is the hotel's fault not hers.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.