Author Topic: Chancing their arm?  (Read 36412 times)

Chris Houston

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2008, 04:51:02 PM »
Quote from: Dragonmaster
Quote from: Davidrh
Hello (I/m the hotelier)
They know they are in a hotel. They know there are smoke alarms...  THEY cause they problem THEY need to pay
Why should the rests of the gueSts have to suffer the consequences because they need A FAG
I wish to issue a challenge to all non FRS (inc ex colleagues) to describe the visual diffence between a smoke and heat detector (in a designated smoking room). How do they know there are smoke alarms? Surely a smoking room has HD's
For point detection only:

Smokes tend to have a thin metal mesh protecting the sensing bits.  Heats tend to have a wee element thing that doesn't need the mesh.   Heats are sometimes a bit deeper, but not always.

Do I win something?

Offline nearlythere

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2008, 05:08:37 PM »
Quote from: Chris Houston
Quote from: Dragonmaster
Quote from: Davidrh
Hello (I/m the hotelier)
They know they are in a hotel. They know there are smoke alarms...  THEY cause they problem THEY need to pay
Why should the rests of the gueSts have to suffer the consequences because they need A FAG
I wish to issue a challenge to all non FRS (inc ex colleagues) to describe the visual diffence between a smoke and heat detector (in a designated smoking room). How do they know there are smoke alarms? Surely a smoking room has HD's
For point detection only:

Smokes tend to have a thin metal mesh protecting the sensing bits.  Heats tend to have a wee element thing that doesn't need the mesh.   Heats are sometimes a bit deeper, but not always.

Do I win something?
As Chris says I thought smoke detectors had vents in them to let smoke in and heat detectors had a solid elements thingy. No?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline kurnal

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2008, 05:24:56 PM »
No-one outside the industry could be expected to have any idea at all. Even with detailed technical knowledge it can be hit and miss, some of the old ones made it easy but with some types its difficult to tell the difference. With multisensors its impossible because the active sensor and state is set in the software.

Graeme

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2008, 05:50:58 PM »
Quote from: Dragonmaster
Quote from: Davidrh
Hello (I/m the hotelier)
They know they are in a hotel. They know there are smoke alarms...  THEY cause they problem THEY need to pay
Why should the rests of the gueSts have to suffer the consequences because they need A FAG
I wish to issue a challenge to all non FRS (inc ex colleagues) to describe the visual diffence between a smoke and heat detector (in a designated smoking room). How do they know there are smoke alarms? Surely a smoking room has HD's
that's easy and most people would be able to tell you.

smoke alarms are big and round and go beep beep beep when i burn the toast at home and don't look anything like a heat detector that would be in a hotel

Smoke detectors are smaller and don't go beep :D

Offline Wiz

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2008, 05:54:31 PM »
Quote from: Chris Houston
.... Heats tend to have a wee element thing....
Chris for future reference the wee element thingy is generally a 'thermistor'

Chris Houston

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2008, 05:58:32 PM »
I prefered my version, but thanks.

Offline Wiz

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2008, 06:02:06 PM »
Quote from: kurnal
..... With multisensors its impossible because the active sensor and state is set in the software.
Prof., the point you are making is absolutely spot on. You can't just look at a multisensor detector and determine what it is set up to respond to

However, for future reference,  the multisensor is likely to have both/all types of sensing elements in one housing (you can't necessarily see all/any of them) and the device itself and/or the control equipment will take readings of either/both or all and operate as per how the panel software is configured. The point I'm making is that there isn't just one general purpose sensing element which is how I read your description.

Offline Wiz

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2008, 06:03:08 PM »
Quote from: Chris Houston
I prefered my version, but thanks.
There will be much discussion about your wee thingy in the bar tonight ;)

Chris Houston

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2008, 06:12:23 PM »
I'll make sure the bar closes early.

messy

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2008, 08:45:47 PM »
Call me old fashioned, but when planning a smoking room in a Hotel, how difficult would it be to consult with your fire alarm engineer to identify which head is SD and which ones aren't??

With regards to the insistance of credit cards, a trend in many of the bigger Hotels I have dealt with in the last few years is the theft of their televisions from bedrooms. Guests arrive, pay cash and book in with their large suitcase which is just a bit bigger than the flatcreen TV in the room (!). By the morning, the guest has left with the telly from his room, and any other rooms left open by guests who have already booked out.

So while I accept there is opportunity for the system to be abused (as in the Belfast ridiculous £1600 charge case), I can see why Hotels prefer to use this system

Graeme

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2008, 02:43:39 PM »
desperados Messy

i take all the shower gel shampoo etc but leave the towels.  

never thought of a tv though....hmmmm

Offline Allen Higginson

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2008, 07:15:28 PM »
Quote from: Davidrh
Hello (I/m the hotelier)
Is it unitended consequences here.
We (hotels) are trying to enforce an army's worth of red tape including Fire regs.
As Joneseys would say "The punters don't like it"
We are a totally non smoking hotel.
I am in the process of installing Optical Smoke Detectors (instead of HD's)  as a compromise with my local brigade who originally wanted Fire Door smoke seals.
BUT.. I have to deals with guests who simple will not abide by the rules.
We have our registration contracts. We have our patrols. We change nets every week because they burn them smoking out the window. etc etc etc.
I appreciate that in the case Buzzard was writing about they were allocated a smoking room but what on earth is a hotel supposed to do (its heads you lose tails you lose)
You know something. I really do not blame any hotel for coming down hard on these people. (and as usual it is a small mindless minority. They have brains. They know they are in a hotel. They know there are smoke alarms...  THEY cause they problem THEY need to pay
Why should the rests of the gueSts have to suffer the consequences because they need A FAG
Hi David.I haven't trawled through the rest of the replies here and am responding to your post.I appreciate that in UK mainland many business' are getting pressed to bring systems up to certain fire regulations and it does mean that sometimes you are between a rock and a proverbial hard place.
However,in the loosest terms of the Sale of Goods act (and Sale of Services etc) goods or services provided must fit or suitable for their purpose.In this particular case the room was not fit for purpose (ie - smoking room) and the customer would have a case to seek help from trading standards in relation to their case against this particular hotel.Smoke detector in a designated smoking room?? - what a no brainer!!!
Certainly,as in your case,if the hotel is specifically non-smoking then there may be grounds for the hotelier to to penalise the resident.
This is not a small indepndant hotel here that I am talking about.

Offline Davidrh

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2008, 09:18:30 PM »
All...I could spend the rest of night telling why most (decent) hotels don't take cash any more (or if they do they still want i.d)...messy's example is just one of many many.
I expect the hotel in question (who charged the £1600.00) has just got fed up with trying to run an orderley house...one that you would all like to stay in no doubt

Chris Houston

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2008, 11:07:03 PM »
Quote from: Davidrh
All...I could spend the rest of night telling why most (decent) hotels don't take cash any more (or if they do they still want i.d)...messy's example is just one of many many.
I expect the hotel in question (who charged the £1600.00) has just got fed up with trying to run an orderley house...one that you would all like to stay in no doubt
If they are fed up with running hotels they should give up running hotels. Fleecing customers who have done no wrong is unacceptable cowboyish behavior.

Offline Davidrh

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Chancing their arm?
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2008, 09:26:26 AM »
The hotel is not fleecing customers Chris. It is responding to situations in an attempt to control them.
The problem is customers fleecing (or trying to) Hotels.

Look at it this way. Just take the Fire regs situation (and there are many others)

We (all businesses) have been landed with a whole load of regulation we are not qualified to apply.
We all went into business doing what we do best but goal posts change (and not for the better)

So its no surprise when some Hoteliers (and I suspect other businesses) err on the side of extreme caution

Every day and every week businesses are on their guard against scams (official and otherwise)

I think its a scam that I have been made legally responsible for "knowing" all there is to know about fire prevention in my premises

I also think changing that particular law (which was done for financial reasons above all others) will eventually costs lives...but thats just my opinion

The previous system worked..why change it

You folk are obviously delighted by it...because its money in your pockets...I am not being rude people that's the way it is

So don't blame businesses when they make what appears to be unreasonable demands on their customers

Someone has to pay for all this regulation and red tape. (and you only need to read this forum to find out how confused WE ALL ARE by it)