Curious

[Mushy]

Hi

Can you tell me how you actually look at a premises and say what the category of risk is?

For example lets say you had a hotel or shop...anything really where the risk of fire itself was low-normal, pat test done, mains electrics checked, no ignition sources (apart from arson) or the sources were under control.... fire alarm system installed, E/L and FFE all ok and yet the housekeeping was a bag of spanners.....storage in the MOE corridors, combustible material left out, bins overflowing and fire doors wedged open or not closing properly...so the risk to people IF a fire did start was high

When you have completed your assessment what would the category be?

Ok if they sort out the bag of spanners I understand the risk will come down but I was thinking of your initial category

[wee brian]

By category - do you mean Low/Normal/ high?

They are meaningless terms used to bamboozle people.

They only mean anything when compared to something else.

[Paul2886]

By category - do you mean Low/Normal/ high?

They are meaningless terms used to bamboozle people.

They only mean anything when compared to something else.

Here here

[jokar]

Have a look at BS 8800 appendic e on risk assessment, it may help you.

[Mushy]

By category - do you mean Low/Normal/ high?

They are meaningless terms used to bamboozle people.

They only mean anything when compared to something else.

Yes that's what I meant...I remember a fire safety officer told me when I was in the job that he we on a Colin Todd course at Bristol and that's what they did ie  High, Medium/Normal and Low and it was a matrix type system...or is my memory playing tricks

[wee brian]

That's a way of comparing relative risks. It breaks down risk into it's two components; Probability and Consequence (there are different words but they mean the same thing).

If its unlikely to happen and the consequence is insignificant then the risk sits as low as you can go. If its definately going to happen and when it does we are all going to die a nasty death then risk is very high.

Unless you have proper probability figures then it's just a way of tidying up the way you think. This is a good thing but dont confuse it with any kind of science.

[colin todd]

Brian, he referred to a "course". I like to think of it as a learning experience. Course is such an understatement dont you think.

[Mushy]

cheers wee brian...

I wouldn't have thought an assessor would need a numbers matrix system...looking round the place and management procedures would give them a feel for the risk I would have thought....but if you had to nail it,  there was no ignition sources to talk about and the place was a mess with the scenario I mentioned in my above post...I was just wondering how anyone would class it

It couldn't be a high risk of fire if there wasn't any ignition sources or the ignition sources were controlled...but it would be a high risk to people if a fire did start...say arson

[Mushy]

Brian, he referred to a "course". I like to think of it as a learning experience. Course is such an understatement dont you think.

sorry Colin...a learning experience it is then

[Mushy]

ps

Colin any reply to my dorguard question on the guest house thread? Ta

[colin todd]

It is a Cat B under BS 7273-4. That then helps define where it might be used. Whether you then want to use it or not is a matter of personal taste..

[kurnal]

Mushy there are two different aspects to this assessment of risk.
Theres the matrix based evaluation of risk for a particular hazard as others have pointed out. But then theres a historic overal assessment of risk for the building - traditionally expressed as high medium and low.  This is applied to factories and warehouses in respect of contents and processes - or it could be applied to all building- eg a   wooden building is clearly a higher fire risk than a concrete one.

The logic is simple- high risk buildings may burn more quickly than low risk buildings, or the fire may develop at a fast rate so you have a shorter time in which to evacuate in safety. So this has a consequent effect on how far you should have to travel to reach an exit, and in a combustible marquee for example how wide the exits are because we need to get people out more quickly.
The fire risk assessment guides for factories and warehouses have different travel distances for each risk category, so if carrying out a risk assessment it will be necessary to record which category you have applied.

[Mushy]

Thanks Kurnal

the second risk assessment type is similar to what we used to do as crews when carrying out 'Tactical Plans' for weight of attack of a building

The first one...the matrix is what in fact I mentioned in my post above...but I still can't get my head round how you would class, say a sleeping risk (hotel) if all ignition sources were under control so low risk of fire but the housekeeping was crap with doors wedged open...after all it is a 'Fire Risk' Assessment

When you produce your document haven't you got to put what risk the place is at the time of inspection?

Colin...you said Dorgaurd should not be used on staircases...is that your personal view or is that in the documents that have been mentioned?


ps...just noticed Dorguards blurb


Part of this Fire Risk Assessment includes ensuring that workers can
escape safely in the event of a fire. This may include protecting corridors and
stairways with self-closing fire doors, which are often wedged open illegally.
Dorgard offers a cost-effective wireless solution for any environment to safely and legally retain fire doors open in any position. When a fire alarm sounds, Dorgard allows fire doors to release and close automatically.

[colin todd]

I didnt. I said staircases in sleeping risks (and single staircase condtions). Answer is both since I drafted the document.

[Mushy]

and that was my question in the other thread colin..here

"This hotel that I stayed in the other weekend had a Dorgard keeping the fire door open at the head of it's accommodation staircase that was open on the ground floor but protecting the bedroom corridor on the first floor (alternative protected stairway at the other end)

The hotel had a very recently installed L2 system

Can you show me where this info can be found that says it's not acceptable Colin

Thanks"