Halon Extinguishers

[Psuedonym]

Agreed Kurnal but you know what happens once you've submitted your well intentioned report, you stick to the Standards and it is too costly for the client.
Due the now more and more common practice of companies bringing in "Facilities Management" firms to run their maintenance schedules for a limited budget (i.e. cheapest tender price) and a short term contract, a new circle of poor practice is becoming more aparant.
They have their own contacts for various disciplines and bring in their own fire servicing company. Usually a cheap and chearful wipe and sign service, so any previous good practice and expertise once enjoyed by the client is thrown out of the window, leaving the client distrustful of the fire protection industry as a whole.
Then following the contract completion another cheaper tender is made by a rival Facilities company and an even worse quality of servicing begins the rounds, ultimately leaving the client with cheap quality products and servicing.
We all have had experience of walking into a new build and being appalled by the quality and standards of protection hanging on the walls - I walked into a soon to be opened hotel today which is part of a National chain and could'nt believe what was sat there, but thats budgets for you. 

[AnthonyB]

Go on gives us a clue as to which kit!

FM companies service departments are notorious.

The one that is named the same as a travel agent can be particularly bad:

- missed terminal dents in extinguishers
- carry few spares and thus can't ES any cartridge extinguishers
- In one building in 2007 they sold the customer six 9 litre foam extinguishers as brand new (at a brand new price).
Being a bit of an extinguisher anorak I immediately identified them as MoD/NATO contract extinguishers by Chubb - 9 litre stored pressure foam branchpipe extinguishers with a 1" colour band around the shell instead of a 10% panel, red levers with standard steel pin in place of the plastic OK (still a version of Chubb premier head, not a TG one) & of course a NATO stock number. Made in 2000 and as with all Government kit released to surplus after a few years, so no doubt bought on the cheap as a pellet load by said FM company.

[Davo]

AnthonyB

I trust Mssrs Sue, Grabbit and Runn are on the case
(or even Plod?)


davo

[Psuedonym]

  Many moons ago I witnessed 200 brand new units installed a new build hospital having to be ripped out and sent back to the supplier as they were found full of rust and gauges corroded. The reason? Salt water washing into the container on board the ship transporting the "British" manufactured product from the Far East to the suppliers own "manufacturing plant" in er..well up North shall we say? The supplier was too arrogant to bother taking the kit out of the mashed cardoard boxes before delivering them. 

[Goodsparks]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HALON-BCF-FIRE-EXTINGUISHERS_W0QQitemZ130283730335QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Fire_Extinguishers?hash=item130283730335&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Must be ok as they've been serviced ? 

[Thomas Brookes]

Goodsparks,

OMG!!.

I like the way he says they are a couple of years old!!! do you think he ment to say decades.
 
Dilema?

Should we not report this to ebay?

[kurnal]

Already informed the vendor. It will be interesting to see what happens!

[AnthonyB]

Made in 1978 - if only a couple of years old it must be a 'Life on Mars' moment.

They are in good nick for their age and I'd bet would perform fully, FFE primary sealed Halons are particularly robust and are still made today for the air industry.

The mystery service person if they actually exist had the good sense not to put a service label on identifying themselves, in fact they look like they were never serviced post purchase.

Rare to find 2.5kg's like those, I normally find elusive 1.5kg & 3lb sizes around. I do think these will still crop up for years, I still find 3lb Nu Swift Uni Flash liquid (Tippex thinners & CBM!) extinguishers from time to time.

The problem with the Ozone Depleting Substances regs is of course that no one enforces them - you'd have to be shifting bulk supplies or trying to import/export before you hit anyone's radar - in fact who does enforce it - the regs don't state whether it's HSE, DTI or the EA.

[Goodsparks]

Rare to find 2.5kg's like those, I normally find elusive 1.5kg & 3lb sizes around. I do think these will still crop up for years, I still find 3lb Nu Swift Uni Flash liquid (Tippex thinners & CBM!) extinguishers from time to time.

I've got a couple of Angus 2.5kgs in the garage that look pretty much the same, no gauge in the base though.

Out of interest, does BCF break down the headcap seals if left in contact for a prolonged period (extinguisher laying sideways), got a few units "waiting for disposal  ) and the 2.5 TG that was layed down has dropped pressure and is stains around the neck ?

Paul

[AnthonyB]

I've had and found leakers like that - BCF does appear to have a tendency to perish the 'O' rings over time, bear in mind it's one of a family of compounds used as solvents & degreasers. I've also seen it degrade the aluminium neck and oxidise it and split it causing a slow leak too.

The Angus version was their own clone of the FFE extinguishers, notable by a slightly different pistol grip head and a symbol that looked like an original series Star Trek Starfleet badge or the spaceship off the arcade game 'Asteroids' on a sticker attached to the head on 80's models.

Like the FFE models you could have gauged or gauge less variants. I still have the 1.5kg model given to me by Angus along with all sorts of other stuff on a factory visit I had in my teens at their place in Morcambe

[Psuedonym]

 

Has anyone read the Questions and Answers? Have a look and ponder how "totally discharged in 2006" etc can be discribed as "only a couple of years old" or of course, how his mate managed to carry out this total discharge and recharge legally and manage to get hold of halon in 2006 or the correct pressure valve adapter? Are they ex special use units? Is the original owner aware of this disposal of their old units? Where did they get the safety seals from? Do Ebay allow stupidity as part of a sellers criteria? hmm...questions, questions... 

[AnthonyB]

It's quite obvious the sellers replies are total junk. A one or two man band that's been around a long time might still have the bits and pieces to recharge defunct stuff, although it's unlikely they ever went to the expense of having the stuff to refill FFE kit themselves.

It's just a couple of old extinguishers that have been lying around for decades in someone's workshop/garage/stores and someone's found them and decided to flog them to the ignorant eBay public.

There are loads of old extinguishers including halons lying around in workplaces - I find several each year on my travels.

Some of the junk sold on eBay (new and used) is scandalous, but we will have to live with it, just as some junk is still being serviced by the cowboys who don't know any better.

The last 'special user' stuff that filtered officially onto the market was MoD Graviner Swordsman & Pyrene/Chubb E-BCF units well over10 years ago - all are now gone and those still in circulation were released to surplus a long time ago.

You still see the odd nicked off a train yellow Firesnow BCF and a fair amount of ex motor sport stuff that is lapped up by the less regulated end of the motorsports field as any officially scrutineered variant has moved onto AFFF or Clean Agent. (if you want to make stupid mark up on 1 & 2 litre AFFF extinguishers sell them as motorsport models as they charge a silly price for their handhelds that aren't part of a plumbed system)

[Psuedonym]

You still see the odd nicked off a train yellow Firesnow BCF and a fair amount of ex motor sport stuff that is lapped up by the less regulated end of the motorsports field as any officially scrutineered variant has moved onto AFFF or Clean Agent. (if you want to make stupid mark up on 1 & 2 litre AFFF extinguishers sell them as motorsport models as they charge a silly price for their handhelds that aren't part of a plumbed system)

Now that brings back a few memories of recharging a couple of large BCF's for a guy's dragster. Unfortunatlely we lost his business when the daft bugger's death trap blew up at a meeting. He got out in one piece, but his missus decided that was one close call too many.