Self closers on bedroom fire doors

[Mushy]

Hi

 Junior doctors sleep in 6 bedrooms off a first floor corridor in a hospital...these rooms have recently been past by building control and the fire and rescue service as fire doors with smoke seals and intumescent strips...but no self closers...

me being an old wrinkly I'm used to sleeping accomodation fire doors having S/C's on them!...anyone differ in that view?

[CivvyFSO]

I would agree with you. In the event of someone leaving a room that is on fire we need the door to close behind them.

[kurnal]

Yes its a historical thing. Prior to the late 1980s it was convention not to put self closers on bedroom doors where there was two way travel in the corridor, only dead ends were protected. But then lives were lost in a  hotel fires where the room occupant- a member of staff - fled his room leaving the door open. As a result the convention changed towards closers on all bedroom doors. 

[wee brian]

Theres some get out clauses in the HTMs for bedroom doors.

They are intended for patient rooms I don't think it's right to apply them to staff accom.

[Bobbins]

If it is not to a store room or service cupboard ie 'kept locked', then it needs a closer to be considered a fire door; for obvious reasons it must self close when used in the event of a fire. (as others have pointed out.)

[Rex]

Hi

 Junior doctors sleep in 6 bedrooms off a first floor corridor in a hospital...these rooms have recently been past by building control and the fire and rescue service as fire doors with smoke seals and intumescent strips...but no self closers...

me being an old wrinkly I'm used to sleeping accomodation fire doors having S/C's on them!...anyone differ in that view?

Mushy,
You are correct, HM Government Heathcare Premises Guide is applicable, from another wrinkly,

[Clevelandfire 3]

If you cant guarantee that a fire door will be maintained in the closed position during a fire you need self closers, some so called experts will argue with that and think you can risk assess it out and that people will remember to close fire doors. Thats fine, if they can personally say that staff will have the presence of mind to close the door behind them in the event if fire, and are so sure about it that they will put their money where there mouth is and agree to pay me £30,000 if they don't then I'll go along with it.  What do you say to that Mushy

[wee brian]

Nice, well reasoned argument.

[Mushy]

well Clevelandfire...who can argue with that... this was passed by building control in consultation with the fire authority...how I'm not sure!

"and agree to pay me £30,000 if they don't then I'll go along with it"

only 30 grand?

[wee brian]

Para B2 Page 54 0f HTM 05-02

"With the exception of fire doors to patients' bedrooms in mental health accommodation, and doors which are kept locked shut, fire doors should be fitted with an automatic self closing device....."

So they would need closers.  I thought the exemption went further but that's what the book says.

[FSO]

I presume it is not sprinkerled?

[CivvyFSO]

Oh don't you dare start with that one again!

[Mushy]

Para B2 Page 54 0f HTM 05-02

"With the exception of fire doors to patients' bedrooms in mental health accommodation, and doors which are kept locked shut, fire doors should be fitted with an automatic self closing device....."

So they would need closers.  I thought the exemption went further but that's what the book says.

well wee brian

I can tell you that the ward bay doors at this hospital are fire doors but don't have self closers on

[Davo]

Difficult moving beds whilst holding open against closers

davo

[Colin Newman]

HTM 81 para B2 didn't include the "in mental health accommodation" qualification and merely referred to patient bedrooms in the exclusion of door closers.