nursing homes and door closers

[jasper]

*posted in community by accident*

Hi again,
I have been undertaking fra's at a large number of nursing homes. Most of these are quite large (up to 60 residents) and I have recommended that all bedroom doors are fire resisting complete with strips / seals and door closing devices. However, after speaking to them today they are not happy with the door closers and are wanting to know if this is a mandatory requirement. I based these assessment on previous knowlege and common sence etc. but this is difficult for them to take-in.
So my main questions are, is there any regulation requiring door closing devices on non NHS nursing homes? and if not, will this be covered in the new guides to come out regarding the new RRO?
thanks in advance
Jasp

[jasper]

anyone any ideas?

[pd]

Jasper,
I don't want to seem rude but if you have been "undertaking fra's at a large number of nursing homes" and don't know the answer to your question, I am surprised that you feel competent.

There is a healthy and at times spirited debate over the respective merits of self-closers, free swing devices, sprinklers, stay put arrangements, staffing levels and horizontal/limited evacuation. All these issues need to be considered.

However, to answer your question, there are no regulations absolutely requiring s/c on bedroom doors and the RRO will definitely not require them either.

Personnaly, I believe sprinklers and compartmentation are the best options, especially if the resisdents are very immobile. Well fitting fire doors and old style self closers generally mean that the residents cannot open their doors unaided.

[jayjay]

where have I heard this question before?

have a read of some of the press cuttings for the Rosepark nursing home fire last year, or the Westbay Nursing Home fire Broughton Ferry, or the Broom Lane Care home Rotherham and them decide what is reasonable to recommend.

Residential care home staff particularly night staff need all the help they can get when evacuting residents a well fitted fire door can and will and have saved lives.

I would have no hesitation in recommending fire doors to bedrooms.

[jasper]

thank you for your reply jayjay.
pd - thank for your flippant remark, but obviously we both dont know the answer as there isnt one.

this is the reply to the clients question (part of it): -
However neither of these has specific information regarding means of escape etc. Therefore, as Approved Document ‘B’ states ‘NHS Estates has prepared a set of guidance documents on fire precautions in Health Care buildings, under the general title of “Firecode”, taking into account the particular characteristics of these buildings. These documents may also be used for non-NHS health care premises’. Within Firecode Health Technical Memorandum No 84 'Fire Safety in Residential Care Premises' (HTM 84) it states that ‘As a matter of policy automatic self-closing devices will be recommended for all bedroom doors when making plan comments or general observations’.

As this is the only real guidance available at the moment and the level of occupancy risk (as these are not all able bodied), this is the reason why these assessments are based on this document.

Also, the client will not and cannot afford to put sprinkler systems in its 60 nursing homes. Therefore as a 'common sense' way of reducing the risk I have suggested door closers

[pd]

The relevant quote doesn't exclude free swing devices or have I read it wrong?

Additionally, I have been in many care homes where prospective tenants have turned down rooms on the basis that the doors were so heavy with traditional self closers they felt they were locked in their rooms.

I don't want to get into a slanging match but if your client finds that rooms are going unfilled because of this reason then the financial judgement could look somewhat different.

[Graeme]

from experience sometimes if you install non-automatic door closers,these are the ones people tend to wedge open.Old people also struggle to open the door against the force of the closer and weight of door.
Automatic swing free are okay if the joiner has made a good job of the door and it does not try to close itself.Again liable to get wedged.
Hold open closer with a remote overide switch is a good option.
Which would need interfaced to FD+A system via fail safe method.

[colin todd]

Define fail safe method. Often this is a misconception.

[Graeme]

example from the aux fire relay in fire panel which is non-silenceable to a normally energised relay at the magnet.
The normally energised relay would be powered from aux power in panel with the negative going through common and normally closed on the fire realy in panel.The positive would go sraight to remote relay coil.
If the cable is cut it would drop the power to the remote relay.

[jasper]

I suggested dor closing devices as they are the cheaper option for the client (about £90 fitted), therefore if the client decides that these are not the best option then swing-free is the way to go. The only problem will be cost, but how much do these cost fitted approx?

[Brian Catton]

There is no requirement for self closing devices on residential care bedroom doors. Indeed where these are fitted it could inhibit evacuation. Even swing free can cause problems as they will not be swing free when the alarm sounds. The Association of Building Control Officers has produced a doc Fire Safety In Residential Care premises and this document agrees there is no requirement for closers on bedroom doors.
HTM 81 The design of new hospitals also allows for self closers not to be fitted to bedroom doors.
Some bedroom doors in elderly and mental health accomodation have to be left open either for the patient/residents peace of mind or so that staff observation/supervision is maintained.
It seems to me that some of you are adopting the belt and braces approach without analysing the actual risk and workable control measures. The main control measures are an L1 alarm system (connected to an alarm centre), good security,compartmentation and appropriate staff levels and training. As I understand it HTM 84 has only been issued in Northern Ireland and is not therefore relevant to the mainland. It will in any event become part of the Risk based new series of Firecode that is being written (Iunderstand) at present.

[jasper]

Would you have the confidence to undertake an assessment on a nursing home, then if there were a fire and someone lost their life, stand up in court and say that an adequate assessment was made as a L1 fa was present and adequate training etc?

[colin todd]

Brian, SHTM 84, which is the scottish version is more up to date and DOES call for swing free closers.

[Graeme]

jasper,
        Closers are approx £200ea.The cost of installation could vary due to different companies and cable lengths etc.
As mentioned swing free are good if the door has been hung properly.But then again i suppose it could be easily rectified by a joiner.

[Brian Catton]

Thanks Colin, But which code would you apply in England?