Supported Assisted Living

[jasper]

I am looking into a premises type where I can find little information on the subject. The premises in question is basically a two storey terraced premises with ground floor and three bedrooms upstairs, there are two residents who have learning difficulties and two members of staff during the day and one sleeping in at night (employed by the council). The assessment is on behalf of the landlord and I am seeking guidance regarding fire safety measures required. The lacors document does not apply, as on page 6 that the guidance is not applicable to ''areas in workplaces where staff sleeping in is a condition of employment or a business requirement''. HTM 88 is not relevant as this is not an nhs type premises. So in theory as persons are employed then my thinking is that the 'sleeping guide' is relevant, however to me it seems a bit vague and not detailed in certain parts in comparison to htm88.
Does anyone have any source of info on this type of premises as I always aim to be armed with the detailed knowledge prior to assessing a different type of premises?
Also a point to note is that there are tens to hundreds of thousands of this type of property in the UK and there is no home office etc guidance on this type of property, which to me seems odd.   

[Tom Sutton]

Would the DCLG guide " Residential Care Premises " ( http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/fire/firesafetyrisk5 ) be a possible answer?

[nearlythere]

What's wrong with using HTM88 Jasper? Would these standards not be just as adequate and appropriate for staff especially when specific guidance is not available?
Does it really matter that this is not an NHS type premises?

If the fire safety measures provided or are recommended are adequate for resident children with learning difficulties then they would certainly be adequate for resident staff.

[Clevelandfire 3]

There used to be guidance issued by the home office which is now donkeys years old. It was in a series of guides which dealt with adult placement, forster care and small childrens homes. I would personally recommend looking at a part 6 system probably LD3, HD in the kitchen and leave it at that.

[jasper]

Thanks for the replies guys, the problem is that say I went for a part 6 system as clevelandfire stated the an inspecting officer uses the sleeping or residential care premises guide then the fra would be classed as not being suitable or sufficient. I dont want to go overboard but also don't want to be short.
The building currently has no fire doors to the bedrooms and is open plan downstairs with an open staircase, it has a part 6 system and that is it, escape windowns cannot be used as a trade off as the residents would not be able to use then due to having serious learning difficulties. I have spoke to one fire officer who has advised a domestic sprinkler system, but to me forming a protected route on the gf would be better. 

[Clevelandfire 3]

Does the staircase terminate into the lounge? If not then traditional doors + part 6 is fine, domestic sprinklers would be well over the top.Are the staff awake at night or are they waking staff?

[kurnal]

Fire Officers are recommending a sprinkler system isn all situations now, its good advice in terms of fire safety but just is not practicable for existing buildings in existing use. Thats why HTM88 has two sections- one for existing and one for new build.

HTM88 is exactly the right guidance document to use, it does not have any legal standing as such but it is intended to be aplied to Non NHS owned premises that are occupied by persons receiving supported living from a trust.It is also referred to as a suitable approach in the ADB.
The benchmark recommended for detection and alarm is a grade C LD1 system but the document does recommend a risk assessment approach to all fire safety factors. No fire authority should have any reason not to accept its use in the circumstances described.

[jasper]

Does the staircase terminate into the lounge? If not then traditional doors + part 6 is fine, domestic sprinklers would be well over the top.Are the staff awake at night or are they waking staff?

the staircase is open to the lounge, staff are sleeping, standard doors only

[kurnal]

Ouch. Rather limits your options then Jasper. I would still apply HTM88 though.

[Colin Newman]

Kurnal's right again.

HTM88 was written specifically to address this type of premises.  The only reason the guidance document didn't reference social care as well as NHS care is because the Department of Health did not carry the fire safety policy lead for social care at the time it was written.

[Clevelandfire 3]

Shame the staircase comes down into the lounge. I wouldnt go with HTM 88 personally. You can liken this to a domestic scenario. LD1 is totally overkill, LD3 is more like it. If you have room you may consider trying to protect the staircase somehow, but dont do that at the expense of living space for the children.
Ill try and find copies of the guides i mentioned. They were produced by CFOA now i come to think of it and are a better fit than HTM 88 in my opinion.

[jasper]

Shame the staircase comes down into the lounge. I wouldnt go with HTM 88 personally. You can liken this to a domestic scenario. LD1 is totally overkill, LD3 is more like it. If you have room you may consider trying to protect the staircase somehow, but dont do that at the expense of living space for the children.
Ill try and find copies of the guides i mentioned. They were produced by CFOA now i come to think of it and are a better fit than HTM 88 in my opinion.

there are no children just two residents around 30 yo with learning difficulties

[Midland Retty]

Shame the staircase comes down into the lounge. I wouldnt go with HTM 88 personally. You can liken this to a domestic scenario. LD1 is totally overkill, LD3 is more like it. If you have room you may consider trying to protect the staircase somehow, but dont do that at the expense of living space for the children.
Ill try and find copies of the guides i mentioned. They were produced by CFOA now i come to think of it and are a better fit than HTM 88 in my opinion.

Disagree Cleveland. HTM 88 is probably the only guide that fits this scenario properly. The guides I think you are refering to were CACFOA circulars, and didn't cover adult placement.

Jaspar I would look at a few things. I do agree with CF3 that this should be treated very much like a normal domestic scenario. The whole point of schemes like this is to de-institutionalise adult care, so making clinical alterations to the staircase would not fit in with the spirit of what they are trying to achieve.

Would it be beyond the realms of possibility to have a member of staff awake at night? (Wage bill for a night worker may be higher than a waking staff member - but don't its worth asking if the organisation will do this)

Its important to have a balanced approach. I feel LD1 Grade C alarm system would be unecessary, but considering the staircase issue then perhaps an LD2 would be advisable.

That coupled with good management (these places generally are well managed), PAT testing carried out, electrics up to standard, limited combustibles in the lounge then I would say that the staircase can be left as it is.

[nearlythere]

Shame the staircase comes down into the lounge. I wouldnt go with HTM 88 personally. You can liken this to a domestic scenario. LD1 is totally overkill, LD3 is more like it. If you have room you may consider trying to protect the staircase somehow, but dont do that at the expense of living space for the children.
Ill try and find copies of the guides i mentioned. They were produced by CFOA now i come to think of it and are a better fit than HTM 88 in my opinion.

Disagree Cleveland. HTM 88 is probably the only guide that fits this scenario properly. The guides I think you are refering to were CACFOA circulars, and didn't cover adult placement.

Jaspar I would look at a few things. I do agree with CF3 that this should be treated very much like a normal domestic scenario. The whole point of schemes like this is to de-institutionalise adult care, so making clinical alterations to the staircase would not fit in with the spirit of what they are trying to achieve.

Would it be beyond the realms of possibility to have a member of staff awake at night? (Wage bill for a night worker may be higher than a waking staff member - but don't its worth asking if the organisation will do this)

Its important to have a balanced approach. I feel LD1 Grade C alarm system would be unecessary, but considering the staircase issue then perhaps an LD2 would be advisable.

That coupled with good management (these places generally are well managed), PAT testing carried out, electrics up to standard, limited combustibles in the lounge then I would say that the staircase can be left as it is.

The thing with an open plan stairway is that you effectively have a sleeping inner room condition x 3 most probably with an excessive travel distance of that condition.
I entirely agree with the point about creating a non institutionalised living environment for persons being cared for in the community but it is still an institution.

[Midland Retty]

Totally agree NT, but is this any riskier than your average domestic scenario?

In my experience residents are generally well supervised in these types of places. The staircase situation is unfortunate, but often trying to fiddle around with staircases can be costly and can mean you loose part or most of the lounge area.

So its trying to balance "quality of life" against "life safety" I guess.